Supreme Court strikes down death penalty for juveniles - Page 2 - Big Big Forums

Jolie Rouge · 03-17-2005, 04:04 PM

Quote:

... all they wanted was to stop being picked on. Their solution was to kill.

Kids have always been picked on in school - most do not resort to mass murder. They went to the prom the Saturday before the killings, taking time out between dances to plant pipebombs in the gym. They planned this out for months in advance, including having others purchase the weapons for them. Walked thru the school targeting - not the poeple who may have picked on them - but minorities and just random people who got in their way. Planted a pipebomb with a timer in the BMW they drove to school to take out random people in the parking lot. Way too much malice, violence and forethought went into this.

Most kids just talk to their parents, teachers, principle - not try to murder innocent people to make themselves infamous.

DP case for sure if they had not saved the State the money.

YNKYH8R · 03-17-2005, 04:58 PM

Unfortunately we’ll never know the true motive we have only the eye witnesses and the tapes to watch. There is one thing you missed though that is the irrationality of the act itself. You your self wrote about who was shot and who wasn’t. Obviously they wanted everyone to suffer. I know I’ve felt like that at some point but I can imagine that I was not picked on as badly as these two were. This isn’t an excuse just a possible explanation. The death penalty doesn’t teach anyone any lessons. It doesn’t teach the convicted anything and no one seems to learn from it because these acts continue on even into adult years. Look at the guy who killed the federal agent, judge, and court clerk. Whoever did that is guaranteed the death penalty…I would imagine that the perp doesn’t care.

Jolie Rouge · 03-17-2005, 11:08 PM

Quote:

I would imagine that the perp doesn’t care.

Perhaps if the Death Penalty was administered in a reasonable amount of time after the sentence is handed down...

We have the DNA advances that have not been available in the past - do the scans to confirm the guilty and free the wrongly convicted; then carry out the sentence as handed down by Judge and Jury. Most DP cases are brutal murders, no one seems worried about the Civil Rights of the victims - least of all the killer.

Quote:

I know I’ve felt like that at some point but I can imagine that I was not picked on as badly as these two were.

I *was* picked on in school - much more viciously than was has been attributed to these cold hearted killers - doesn't mean I tried to murder anyone.

YankeeMary · 03-18-2005, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolie Rouge

I would hardly describe Lee Malvo, Eric Harris, and Dylan Klebold as "children".

You don't think these individuals should be held accountable for randomly shooting innocent people, who planned and carried out the ultimate violence ... but people like YankeeMary think it is okay to slowly subject an innocent woman to a protracted death by dehydration and starvation because she is an inconvience to her own husband ?

I sure do not appreciate your comment here and would appreciate you keeping your opinion about me to yourself. It totally amazes me that people on this board behave such as this. My opinion differs from you so therefore you take it upon yourself to try and not only slam me but to also misquote me. I feel that they should have let her die 15 years not because she is an inconvience to her DH but because SHE DIDN'T WANT TO LIVE LIKE THIS! So funny how YOU are so perfect that it gives you the right to judge others, must be nice. But hey you know what God will forgive you and so will I.

YankeeMary · 03-18-2005, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolie Rouge

Perhaps if the Death Penalty was administered in a reasonable amount of time after the sentence is handed down...

Just as if they would have let Teri die in the beginning? So its ok to kill as long as it done quickly? Do we have a fence rider here?

adorkablex · 03-18-2005, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolie Rouge

Kids have always been picked on in school - most do not resort to mass murder. They went to the prom the Saturday before the killings, taking time out between dances to plant pipebombs in the gym. They planned this out for months in advance, including having others purchase the weapons for them. Walked thru the school targeting - not the poeple who may have picked on them - but minorities and just random people who got in their way. Planted a pipebomb with a timer in the BMW they drove to school to take out random people in the parking lot. Way too much malice, violence and forethought went into this.

Most kids just talk to their parents, teachers, principle - not try to murder innocent people to make themselves infamous.

DP case for sure if they had not saved the State the money.

Going with Jolie on this one.
I knew right from wrong from the age of 2 on up until now. At 12/13 (Around the time of Columbine), I may have gotten teased (have to love getting boobs around 12 year old boys

) but I knew that shooting up the school wasn't the solution. I knew that it was murder. Children under the age of 18 may act irrational but in my opinion, it's not something you can gauge on age. I mean a person doesn't suddenly become more responsible at the stroke of midnight on their 18th birthday. Heck, if the "not old enough for war, voting etc" argument can be used, why not the "not even old enough to buy liquor"? It's ridiculous to me that if I went upstairs and killed my Mom for say... burning dinner (heh) I'd get life or the death penalty. Though if a 17 year old kid 2 days before his 18th birthday did the same he wouldn't get the death penalty. It's bullcrap.

I remember watching a case on court tv about these two little boys who killed another little boy. I think they beat him/stabbed him to death. He was 9/10 or so and had some mental development problems... and two 11 year olds killed him. Seemingly for the sport of it.

Kids/teenagers that murder someone in such a cold hearted manner shouldn't be thought of as normal. And I don't know about you but I don't want a murder back on the streets around MY kids in 10 years. (I'm just talking about the whole being tried as an adult/minor.. even though no one brought it up.)

OK. Enough of my rant.. I'm off to dry my hair and pack.

YNKYH8R · 03-18-2005, 11:44 AM

Ashley I understand your argument but IMO the government needs to make up its mind about how it perceives 18 year old people. Get this:
At the age of eighteen you can go to war and die for your country, smoke, buy pornography, and drive. You can’t do these things before 18 because you cannot be held accountable for your actions. Yet you can be given the DP before 18. What about not being accountable for actions? Something needs to change a line needs to be drawn. Besides even Saudi Arabia with its public executions don’t execute children.

And yes I do believe that the perpetrators of the Columbine shooting were aware of what they were doing is wrong but the irrationality of the act itself shows deep emotional stress or some other dysfunction. Whether it is hormonal or not, I don’t know. I do know I don’t blame the media, television, video games, or music. I see it as maybe those in their school that treated them the way they were being treated should have thought twice.

Jolie Rouge · 03-18-2005, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolie Rouge

Perhaps if the Death Penalty was administered in a reasonable amount of time after the sentence is handed down...

Just as if they would have let Teri die in the beginning? So its ok to kill as long as it done quickly? Do we have a fence rider here?

Terri has commited no crime. The one and only person asserting that Teri had stated a DNR was to her husband -- while in discussions with her friends, family, associates, ect. state the complete opposite. Hmmm... the one person who gets to pull the plug is the one person who stands to benefit from her death. Convient.

Can you imagine the uproar it we strapped down inmates and refused them food & water until they died of "natural causes" ? People who dealt death in the cruelest manner are given a last meal, a tranquelizer, an alcohol swab ( no chance of last second infections ? ) and a shot to guide them into the next life. Teri gets starved to death - treament you would not wish upon a dog ( and would in fact bring you up on charges.... )

Jaxx · 03-19-2005, 05:51 AM

I think it depends on how severe the crime is - JMO

Jolie Rouge · 07-02-2007, 02:15 AM

Common Sense on Capital Punishment
By Fred Thompson

Our country seems to be able to come to the right
conclusions over time, even when we’re being told over and over again that we're wrong. When I say the right conclusions, by the way, I mean conclusions supported by honest research and real evidence. I've got a good example -- capital punishment.

For decades, the self-proclaimed smart kids have been telling us that the death penalty just doesn't work. The people with the top jobs in academia and the news business have scoffed at the American people's insistence that executions prevent murder.

On the very surface of the issue, it would seem pretty obvious that an executed murderer can't murder anybody else -- but we've been told that we were wrong even about that. You've undoubtedly heard the old saw about executions actually motivating murderers to kill, presumably because what murderers really want is attention. The argument is a stretch, demanding that we believe that killers aren't deterred by the consequences of being caught and executed.

Without evidence, though, it's hard to rebut.

In the last few years, however, serious researchers have applied themselves to finding the evidence. Criminologists and economists have gathered and analyzed a mountain of data, and many of them were surprised by what they found. Now, they've published papers in respected academic journals that are establishing an unexpected consensus.

The reliable two-thirds of Americans who have always supported the death penalty probably wouldn't be surprised to find out that study after study has shown that the death penalty deters murders. Some studies show really dramatic effects, with each execution of a murderer deterring as many as 18 or more murders. That's according to Emory University professors, who found as well that delaying execution also leads to further murders. Most studies have concluded that some number of murders between three and 18 are prevented for every application of capital punishment.

I guess the most surprising thing to me was seeing an article about these findings just a few weeks ago by the Associated Press. The most interesting quote was from a well-known opponent of capital punishment who looked at the evidence and said, "Abolitionists or others, like me, who are skeptical about the death penalty haven't given adequate consideration to the possibility that innocent life is saved by the death penalty."

Certainly, the use of DNA evidence to clear long-held prisoners from murder charges proves that we need to be more careful about handing out death sentences; and science must be used even more and earlier in the criminal process to protect the innocent and convict the guilty. However, these studies are important in properly analyzing the effect of the death penalty.

Adra · 07-02-2007, 08:29 AM

So many thoughts on this subject.

I taught my children that there are consequences for their actions. I taught them that they should THINK before acting. I tried so hard to monitor who their friends were and where they were hanging out. That was my job because -it's true- their minds don't work like an adults. However I made them responsible for their actions.

I think I am going to really be fussed at for my opinion, but in most cases I see the parents as not providing adequate training at home. But I think that these misfits should not be put back in society and I do not want my tax money supporting them. So the alternative is the death penalty.