Where do you live...?

YNKYH8R

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"The world will look up and shout save us; and I'll whisper no." R U WE TAH DID?

YNKYH8R

Rove Was Right
One of the worst aspects of Bush's win on Tuesday is the reality that Rove was right. Karl Rove, Bush's senior campaign advisor (aka Bush's Brain) apparently always felt that if the "evangelicals" had voted in 2000, the election wouldn't have even been close. So he designed Bush's presidency to appeal to those people to ensure a second term. Witness the limitations on federal funding for stem cell research, the passage of the partial birth abortion ban, the removal of federal funds for international family planning organizations and the endorsement of a federal amendment to the Constitution banning gay marriage. This radical right wing social agenda that has so incensed us on the left is exactly what got him elected, for this time the evangelicals did turn out and they voted for Bush. And according to Nicholas Kristoff of the New York Times, they constitute one-third of Americans, which would explain the statistic that 36% of all Bush voters counted "moral values" as the number one issue they voted on. Greater than terrorism, greater than Iraq, greater than the economy. This utter contempt for and assault on our values is what has made us so passionate and feel like this was more than a mere election. Thomas Friedman of The New York Times agrees.


What troubled me yesterday was my feeling that this election was tipped because of an outpouring of support for George Bush by people who don't just favor different policies than I do - they favor a whole different kind of America. We don't just disagree on what America should be doing; we disagree on what America is.

Is it a country that does not intrude into people's sexual preferences and the marriage unions they want to make? Is it a country that allows a woman to have control over her body? Is it a country where the line between church and state bequeathed to us by our Founding Fathers should be inviolate? Is it a country where religion doesn't trump science? And, most important, is it a country whose president mobilizes its deep moral energies to unite us - instead of dividing us from one another and from the world?

At one level this election was about nothing. None of the real problems facing the nation were really discussed. But at another level, without warning, it actually became about everything. Partly that happened because so many Supreme Court seats are at stake, and partly because Mr. Bush's base is pushing so hard to legislate social issues and extend the boundaries of religion that it felt as if we were rewriting the Constitution, not electing a president.

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"The world will look up and shout save us; and I'll whisper no." R U WE TAH DID?

YNKYH8R

Voter Priorities
Thanks to Guru who is experiencing the election in a hotel room in Hong Kong, who reported this interesting tidbit on voter priorities from CNN International:

Kerry Voters:

Economy/Jobs 33%
Iraq War 28%
Terrorism 3%

Bush Voters:

Moral Values 36%
Terrorism 32%

Pretty much says it all , doesn't it?

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"The world will look up and shout save us; and I'll whisper no." R U WE TAH DID?

YNKYH8R

In God We Trust: All Others Pay Cash

By Ralph C. Reynolds

Before the days of credit and debit cards, one used to see signs similar to the one above in diners, service stations, food stores, and many other establishments, obviously playing on the use of the motto "In God We Trust" that is on our coins and paper currency. It may come as a surprise to many younger and even not so young persons that this was not always so, that the regular use of "In God We Trust" on US coins did not begin until 1908, "In God We Trust" was not made an official motto of the United States until 1956, and the motto did not appear on paper money until 1957. The history of the choice of "In God We Trust" as an official motto of the United States and the practice of placing "In God We Trust" on coins and bills is a tale of historical revisionism, perfidy by our elected representatives and appointed officials, and ecclesiastical opportunism whose results have tended to eat away at the foundations of our liberties and threaten the very idea of the separation of church and state.

In contrast to the Declaration of Independence, and quite deliberately, the Constitution of the United States contains not a single reference to a deity or to divine inspiration. This was, of course, due to the genius of the founding fathers who saw in Europe and elsewhere the strife that had been engendered by the adoption of official religions in nearly all Old World countries. Yet we frequently see in letters to the editor and elsewhere the claim that the US was created and remains a Christian nation. I have had several e-mail notes from evangelicals and fundamentalists who have maintained the same thing. When pressed as to where this idea comes from, they point to the words "In God We Trust" on all our money and the phrase "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. Well, how did this come about? How did the clearly unconstitutional words "In God We Trust" and "under God" come to appear on our money and in our Pledge of Allegiance?

In the early years of our country, around 1800, when church affiliation was perhaps 10% (some authorities say up to 17-20%) of the population, the motto on our coins, then the major medium of exchange, was often just "LIBERTY." In 1776, Congress appointed John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson to design a Great Seal for the fledgling country. The motto they adopted for the Great Seal was E Pluribus Unum, meaning, "from many, one" or "one unity composed of many parts." Although the design was rejected, the motto was adopted by the designers of the Great Seal approved by Congress in 1782. The motto was first used on coins of the United States mint in 1795, and both legends, that is, LIBERTY and E Pluribus Unum, were used somewhat regularly on coins throughout the nineteenth century.

By 1860 the proportion of church-related persons in the United States had slowly doubled or tripled to about 40% of the population, and during and following the Civil War, there was a burgeoning of religious fanaticism in America that built on a general feeling fed by the clergy that the Civil War was God's punishment for omitting His name from the Constitution. In 1863, eleven Protestant denominations banded together to petition the Congress to correct the oversight by the founders and "reform" the Constitution to indicate that the United States was created as and remained a Christian nation. Thus, the so-called National Reform Association submitted the following additions to the preamble:

We, the people of the United States, humbly acknowledging almighty God as the source of all authority and power in civil government, the Lord Jesus Christ as the ruler among nations, his revealed will as the supreme law of the land, in order to constitute a Christian government, and in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the inalienable rights and the blessings of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness to ourselves, our posterity, and all the people, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. [Proposed additions italicized.]

The Christian amendment never gained the approval of the Congress or of any of the states. When introduced again in 1874 it never got out of committee. In its heyday, however, in the early 1860s, the NRA (not the gun people) had as members many prominent men including a Supreme Court Justice, William Strong, and two ex-governors of Pennsylvania, J.W. Geary and James Pollock. The stated and well-known goal of the NRA was the creation of a Christian theocracy in the United States. Although they were singularly unsuccessful in their primary goal of amending the preamble, the organization lasted through the first half of the twentieth century and apparently still had registered lobbyists in the late 1950s.

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"The world will look up and shout save us; and I'll whisper no." R U WE TAH DID?

cleaningla

Think Karl Rove took these pictures?





Looks like they played the God card and won, but what did they win?

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The secret is hidden right before your eyes..

Jolie Rouge

How much stem cell research was federally funded under Clinton ?

ZERO.

Bush has not "banned" stem cell research as the Liberal Media would like to play it - he has limited funding to the existing embryonic stem cell lines where the research can be more fully developed. There is no ban or limites on private funding for research in other lines.


Do you understand the process of a partial birth abortion - delivering an infant past the shoulders but holding the hips and legs in the birth canal ( because if the child is fully delivered it would be murder ) while you puncture the skull and evacuate the brainpan. The idea that the "health of the mother" is involved is a fallacy - because the most difficult part of the delivery is passing the head and shoulder thru the birth canal - which is already accomplished prior to the final action of the procedure - the evacuation of the brainpan.

Do you know they can not procede with a partial birth abortion on a child that is presenting breech ? They must reach in and turn the baby ( risking the mother ) so that the head is presented first so that they can complete the procedure that is supposed to be protecting the "health of the mother".

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Laissez les bon temps rouler! Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.** a 4 day work week & sex slaves ~ I say Tyt for PRESIDENT! Not to be taken internally, literally or seriously ....Suki ebaynni IS THAT BETTER ?

YNKYH8R

These articles do not mention "banning stem cell research" nor does it mention Clinton. With that being said...
I do not approve of partial birth abortion. I also do not approve of the government telling a woman what to do with her body. I do not approve of state sponsered religon. And I do not approve of limited funding of stem cell research.

__________________
"The world will look up and shout save us; and I'll whisper no." R U WE TAH DID?

YNKYH8R

Saudi religious scholars back ‘holy war’
Clerics appeal to Iraqis to support anti-U.S. militants

The Associated Press
Updated: 4:43 a.m. ET Nov. 7, 2004


BEIRUT, Lebanon - Prominent Saudi religious scholars urged Iraqis to support militants waging holy war against the U.S.-led coalition forces as American troops prepared Saturday for a major assault on the insurgent hotbed of Fallujah.

The 26 Saudi scholars and preachers said in an open letter to the Iraqi people that their appeal was prompted by “the extraordinary situation through which the Iraqis are passing which calls for unity and exchange of views.” The letter was posted on the Internet.

“At no time in history has a whole people been violated ... by propaganda that’s been proved false,” Sheik Awad al-Qarni, one of the scholars, told Al-Arabiya TV.

“The U.S. forces are still destroying towns on the heads of their people and killing women and children. What’s going on in Iraq is a result of the big crime of America’s occupation of Iraq.”

In their letter, the scholars stressed that armed attacks by militant Iraqi groups on U.S. troops and their allies in Iraq represent “legitimate” resistance.


Appeal aimed at Iraqis
The scholars were careful to direct their appeal to Iraqis only and stayed away from issuing a general, Muslim-wide call for holy war. They also identified the military as the target, one that is considered legitimate by many Arabs who view U.S. troops and their allies as occupiers.

The independent scholars — some of whom have been criticized in the past for their extremist views — apparently did not want to antagonize the Saudi government, a U.S. ally, or appear to be flouting its efforts to fight terrorism.

Saudi Arabia has sealed off its long border with Iraq and bars people from crossing into that country. Its most senior clerics issued a statement last year saying the call for jihad — or holy war — should only come from the ruler and should not be based on edicts issued by individual clergymen.

Saudi officials did not comment on the latest statement.

The clerics’ appeal came as U.S. troops, backed by air and artillery power and Iraqi security forces, were gearing up for a major assault on Fallujah.


The clerics issued a fatwa, or religious edict, prohibiting Iraqis from offering any support for military operations carried out by U.S. forces against insurgent strongholds.

“Fighting the occupiers is a duty for all those who are able,” the letter said. “It is a jihad to push back the assailants. Resistance is a legitimate right. A Muslim must not inflict harm on any resistance man or inform on them. Instead, they should be supported and protected.”

Besides al-Qarni, the prominent scholars signing the letter included Sheik Safar al-Hawali, Sheik Nasser al-Omar, Sheik Salman al-Awdah and Sheik Sharif Hatem al-Aouni.

Al-Hawali, who was jailed in the 1990s for five years without trial because he criticized U.S. involvement in the 1991 Gulf War against Iraq, once was close to Saudi-born al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden. He opposed the presence of U.S. troops in the kingdom.

His name appeared this month on a list issued by a group of Arab intellectuals seeking to prosecute prominent clerics for encouraging terrorism.

The scholars said inter-Iraqi fighting would cause “great damage to the Iraqis and give a free service to the Jews who are infiltrating into Iraq and to the coalition forces which exploit differences to consolidate their domination.”

Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of Islam and home to its two holiest cities, has launched a campaign against militants. The crackdown began after al-Qaida-affiliated operatives attacked three residential compounds in Riyadh in May 2003 and killed dozens of people, bringing terrorism to the kingdom for the first time since the Sept. 11 attacks.

__________________
"The world will look up and shout save us; and I'll whisper no." R U WE TAH DID?

Jolie Rouge

kinda hard to discuss Clinton's funding of stem cell research ie: it did not exist. How does funding the most promising line of research ( existing lines ) equate with banning all research ?? See the thread I started months ago on the issue of Stem Cell research....


I was quoting you - not 'an article' ...

But nice way to jump into the Iraq arguement .....

... while ignoring the realities of abortion....

YNKYH8R

Although I hate to bring it up...the realities of abortion are Roe v. Wade.

__________________
"The world will look up and shout save us; and I'll whisper no." R U WE TAH DID?

YNKYH8R

Man commits suicide at ground zero
25-year-old reportedly distraught over President Bush’s reelection

The Associated Press
Updated: 8:43 a.m. ET Nov. 7, 2004


NEW YORK - A 25-year-old from Georgia who was apparently distraught over President Bush’s re-election shot and killed himself at ground zero.

Andrew Veal’s body was found Saturday morning inside the off-limits site, said Steve Coleman, a spokesman for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. A shotgun was found nearby, but no suicide note was found, Coleman said.

Newsday, citing a police source it did not identify, reported Sunday that Veal opposed the war in Iraq and was apparently distraught after the election.

Friends said Veal worked in a computer lab at the University of Georgia and was planning to marry.

“I’m absolutely sure it’s a protest,” Mary Anne Mauney, Veal’s supervisor at the lab, told The Daily News. “I don’t know what made him commit suicide, but where he did it was symbolic.”

Police were investigating how Veal entered the former World Trade Center site, which is protected by high fences and owned by the Port Authority.

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"The world will look up and shout save us; and I'll whisper no." R U WE TAH DID?