Where do you live...? - Page 9 - Big Big Forums

JKATHERINE · 11-09-2004, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolie Rouge

I went to public school - we had a student that was Muslim. He was allowed to go outside at certain times of the day ( notably - math class

) and do his prayers. He had a right to Freedom of Religion. We were not allowed to conduct a Bible Study Group - at lunch, in the library - because of the seperation of Church and State. We had three meeting before we were shut down. We tried to meet afterschool; they would not allow it.

Why does Freedom of Religion apply to any and all faiths except Christian ?

Well that's just silly! No one can stop you or children from meeting afterschool unless it's your/their own parents. I'm sorry that your school was so intolerant of your religion and accomodating of another's. I'm not sure where you grew up, but I'm so glad that I grew up in the North. These are just not big issues here. Pray if you want, don't if you don't. No one cares.

JKATHERINE · 11-09-2004, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janelle

Lots of people know exactly why. People are lacking a moral base in their lives. They only live for the moment. They need to feel good but they feel empty cause our society is so vapid. Everyone for themselves. And the kids doing the picking on other kids in school feel this the most.

When our society could fill up this empty feelings with belief in doing good to others they felt needed and had high self-esteem. So I think prayer in school has lots to do with the shootings.

I don't care what kind of religion we have just so we have some religion. Schools are so secular now. That is what is wrong with the Democratic party, they want to be secular. Well teaching nothing is still teaching. It's telling the kids to be for number one, everyone else is.

One man told me recently---I'm sure he was a product of public school---that he had no morals, he was ethical though. HUH? How can one have ethics without a moral base?

Morals, religion, Christian, prayer---all those have become dirty words to Democrats. And people wonder why they lost. They are so lost it's not funny.

The only problem is, school is NOT for teaching morals and values. That is why children have PARENTS. It is the lack of parenting that is eroding the goodness in our youths. Not the lack of religion in school. If people would either keep their legs crossed or do their JOB as parents, then a lot of the problems in this world, with angry children (who often turn into criminal adults) could be AVOIDED altogether. But, no one wants to do their job as a parent. They're just too darn lazy.

Religion does not make a good child. Good parenting makes a good child.

janelle · 11-09-2004, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JKATHERINE

No, teachers cannot tell kids what Jesus taught because it's wrong. Not everyone is religious. Not everyone believes in Jesus. Religion should not be forced on anyone. That is why we have religious schools.

As far as family. I've never heard anyone tell a child not to bring their 'family' into the school. In fact, I've taught in schools and I've seen that it's encouraged to talk about their families, to bring in photos, and write stories and reports on family. I'm really sorry that you live in an area that is so messed up that family isnt' allowed in school.

You just proved my point. Secular people do not understand Christians. We live our religion and to us religion is not a dirty word. I understand you hate organized religion but we love our religion. We love Jesus and God but the schools cannot say the name Jesus. Why would we want to send our kids to public schools with such an unfriendly enviorment towards us?

Reading the book, "East of Eden" and having the kids make a big stink about it just cause it has Eden in it is absolutely silly but this is what it has come to. Even the kids see hypocracy. Christians are accused of the hypocracy card but the schools are the ones who start it. Bush talks about God and right away he is using God in the eyes of secular people. That is a slap in the face of Christians. No, secular people do not understand Christians and it may be a very long time before they have the presidency back.

mesue · 11-09-2004, 11:09 AM

All of you seem to be missing the point about religion no one is saying they want to take your religion and rights away, in fact the founding fathers were trying to protect them when they called for the separation of church and state. When they become one and the same then one religion usually comes through as the only one to be recognized and when that happens it might not be your religion that is chosen. If you want to see what happens when church and state become one in the same look to the miiddle east and see what a mess that is as far as their laws and beliefs go. I have no problem with a moment of silence in the schools but there is a real problem when you have teachers leading prayer in the schools. As I said before I know a teacher who is wicken who will be glad to share her religion with your children as soon as the laws change, my daughter is following the teaching of buddhism and will be glad to share her religion with your children as soon as the laws change. What is wrong with keeping your religion within your own household and church and those members of society that share it. Why do you feel that the family living next door and child going to your childs school has to share your religion in school, of course it might not work out that way the family next door might be the ones expecting your child to share in their religion in school. As someone else has already pointed out morals and family values do not have anything to do with religion, those things are taught at home by children watching and learning from their parents.

YNKYH8R · 11-09-2004, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bick'sMom

So this United States of Canada thing...........what exactly does that mean? If it means that you think that Canadians believe in getting rid of guns, getting rid of prayer in school, and not fighting this war....then you need to take a trip to Canada. If it doesn't I apologize, just ask for an explanation.

No, the USOC (United States of Canada) is tongue in cheek. I was trying to show that Bush was elected because of want for return to a moral and ethical balance. Which I can agree with, except that there are some inconsistencies, and IMO, the war and it's success should be at the fore front and it wasn't.
The conversations that ensued, evolved naturally. We began by discussing partial birth abortion and Roe v. Wade. Then I stated a though that if we wanted to change ROe v. Wade then we should also change the second amendment, because abortion rights are a concerne to most gun legis;ation is important to me. Which led to school prayer...

YNKYH8R · 11-09-2004, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mesue

All of you seem to be missing the point about religion no one is saying they want to take your religion and rights away, in fact the founding fathers were trying to protect them when they called for the separation of church and state. When they become one and the same then one religion usually comes through as the only one to be recognized and when that happens it might not be your religion that is chosen. If you want to see what happens when church and state become one in the same look to the miiddle east and see what a mess that is as far as their laws and beliefs go. I have no problem with a moment of silence in the schools but there is a real problem when you have teachers leading prayer in the schools. As I said before I know a teacher who is wicken who will be glad to share her religion with your children as soon as the laws change, my daughter is following the teaching of buddhism and will be glad to share her religion with your children as soon as the laws change. What is wrong with keeping your religion within your own household and church and those members of society that share it. Why do you feel that the family living next door and child going to your childs school has to share your religion in school, of course it might not work out that way the family next door might be the ones expecting your child to share in their religion in school. As someone else has already pointed out morals and family values do not have anything to do with religion, those things are taught at home by children watching and learning from their parents.

Very good point. What if the 'values' that your religon teach don't jive with my values, do I want to confuse my child? Public school are tax run, and the school board is made up of people who live in the community the school is in, not by people from DC and not from priests or ministers. If you want religous teachings or prayer or values in school, then send your children to schools that actively practice it, or home school them.

janelle · 11-09-2004, 11:53 AM

How can people live without vlaues? That is so naive but that is what we see in schools now and in government. Think our society has profited from it? Just look around and see how society has gone down hill from that kind of thinking.

Most people do not want to live in a valueless society but our schools say we must not have values if we want to attend. At least leave them at the door and don't talk about them in here. All values are mostly the same so I don't have a problem with other's values. Having no values is what bothers me and that is where we are in schools cause it can't be brought to school. Just naive all around. Geesh.

YNKYH8R · 11-09-2004, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janelle

You just proved my point. Secular people do not understand Christians. We live our religion and to us religion is not a dirty word. I understand you hate organized religion but we love our religion. We love Jesus and God but the schools cannot say the name Jesus. Why would we want to send our kids to public schools with such an unfriendly enviorment towards us?

Reading the book, "East of Eden" and having the kids make a big stink about it just cause it has Eden in it is absolutely silly but this is what it has come to. Even the kids see hypocracy. Christians are accused of the hypocracy card but the schools are the ones who start it. Bush talks about God and right away he is using God in the eyes of secular people. That is a slap in the face of Christians. No, secular people do not understand Christians and it may be a very long time before they have the presidency back.

It is not that Democrats or liberals are offended by the word God or Jesus; we don't have a problem with the Christian religon. It is the people who practice it that some people have aproblem with. A lot of Chirstians, not necessarily anyone in this forum, come across as intolerant and judgemental. So quick to point out what is wrong with everyone, and in turn having the attitude that "if you aren't with God than you have no ethics." God is good for some people. Others become fanatical, in the end God is not the answer to every question. IMO.

Bick'sMom · 11-09-2004, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mesue

All of you seem to be missing the point about religion no one is saying they want to take your religion and rights away, in fact the founding fathers were trying to protect them when they called for the separation of church and state. When they become one and the same then one religion usually comes through as the only one to be recognized and when that happens it might not be your religion that is chosen. If you want to see what happens when church and state become one in the same look to the miiddle east and see what a mess that is as far as their laws and beliefs go. I have no problem with a moment of silence in the schools but there is a real problem when you have teachers leading prayer in the schools. As I said before I know a teacher who is wicken who will be glad to share her religion with your children as soon as the laws change, my daughter is following the teaching of buddhism and will be glad to share her religion with your children as soon as the laws change. What is wrong with keeping your religion within your own household and church and those members of society that share it. Why do you feel that the family living next door and child going to your childs school has to share your religion in school, of course it might not work out that way the family next door might be the ones expecting your child to share in their religion in school. As someone else has already pointed out morals and family values do not have anything to do with religion, those things are taught at home by children watching and learning from their parents.

AMEN!!

This is very well said. I agree that morals and good family values have nothing to do with religion. I think what should be taught in schools is TOLERANCE.

YNKYH8R · 11-09-2004, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janelle

How can people live without vlaues? That is so naive but that is what we see in schools now and in government. Think our society has profited from it? Just look around and see how society has gone down hill from that kind of thinking.

Most people do not want to live in a valueless society but our schools say we must not have values if we want to attend. At least leave them at the door and don't talk about them in here. All values are mostly the same so I don't have a problem with other's values. Having no values is what bothers me and that is where we are in schools cause it can't be brought to school. Just naive all around. Geesh.

Who says we need to live without values? You make it sound like someone got up on a soap box and declared values as umimportant. I have an open minded look at life, so I have no values?

janelle · 11-09-2004, 12:11 PM

What if the 'values' that your religon teach don't jive with my values, do I want to confuse my child? This is a quote by you YNKYH8R.
================================================== ========
I said I have no problem with others values just so they have values. Which statement is intolerant?

Why do you pick out the extreme religious nuts and say all Christians may be that way so we will get rid of all mention of Christianity in our schools? Does that make sense? Who is being exclusive?