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YNKYH8R · 11-08-2004, 05:30 PM

So then why are there school shootings if children are free to go to Church. Why is it that prayer in school is so important and is the solution? I know not every kid goes to church, but then again not every kid goes to school either.

YNKYH8R · 11-08-2004, 05:39 PM

Oh, and would, if there was school prayer, would it be optional by school or manditory. After a while wouldn't you have only children who's parents who don't want school prayer taking their kids elsewhere? And would the state provide a public school for those children?

janelle · 11-09-2004, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YNKYH8R

We have a drub problem because there is still a demand. People want ot get high. (Don't ask me why I don't know

)

Lots of people know exactly why. People are lacking a moral base in their lives. They only live for the moment. They need to feel good but they feel empty cause our society is so vapid. Everyone for themselves. And the kids doing the picking on other kids in school feel this the most.

When our society could fill up this empty feelings with belief in doing good to others they felt needed and had high self-esteem. So I think prayer in school has lots to do with the shootings.

I don't care what kind of religion we have just so we have some religion. Schools are so secular now. That is what is wrong with the Democratic party, they want to be secular. Well teaching nothing is still teaching. It's telling the kids to be for number one, everyone else is.

One man told me recently---I'm sure he was a product of public school---that he had no morals, he was ethical though. HUH? How can one have ethics without a moral base?

Morals, religion, Christian, prayer---all those have become dirty words to Democrats. And people wonder why they lost. They are so lost it's not funny.

suziebee20 · 11-09-2004, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolie Rouge

I went to public school - we had a student that was Muslim. He was allowed to go outside at certain times of the day ( notably - math class

) and do his prayers. He had a right to Freedom of Religion. We were not allowed to conduct a Bible Study Group - at lunch, in the library - because of the seperation of Church and State. We had three meeting before we were shut down. We tried to meet afterschool; they would not allow it.

Why does Freedom of Religion apply to any and all faiths except Christian ?

That is totaly unfair! While I don't agree with organized prayer in schools, I cannot beleive they wouldn't let you do that on your own time if you chose to do it. At Santana we had Christian club. I wasn't a member but my friend was and she said they did Bible studies, prayer, worship songs, stuff like that. I think if students choose to do it at an appropriate time and location (not during regular class hours when the teachers trying to lecture) that should be allowed. We read parts of the Bible in my junior AP english class and I remember a bunch of kids tried to get out of it saying it was against their beliefs, but it didn't slide because we were reading it from a literature stand point and analyzing some of the stuff from it, I think it was when we were reading East of Eden

.

As for prayer in schools, I don't think that it should be a mandatory school wide thing. It would be nice to have maybe a 1 minute moment of silence after the pledge to reflect on life and the students who want to pray can.

mesue · 11-09-2004, 04:17 AM

So family and moral values are only related to religion and if we had religion in our lives and government its all going to get better. Well I don't buy it, while some of you who are republican talk about family values and moral values is only owned by you and your party. I am not particularly religious as far as going to church and following any certain religion but I have morals and family values. To me moral and family values are a code of ethics one has that they live by, I developed mine based on my raising and I never set foot inside a church until I was at least ten years old. But I will tell you one thing I would not do and that is to use God for my own purposes, I would not use him to get elected to any office and I would also tend to think that anyone who does is probably the biggest hypocrite and liar to ever walk the face of God's green earth.

JKATHERINE · 11-09-2004, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mesue

I'm always confused by the President's views on some matters. I always was taught in my religion anyway that if you believe something, you believe it, you can't tear it apart and pick and choose what you want it to mean. Like the right to life, a lot of people quote the ten commandments, one of the most memorable is, thou shalt not kill! Well now if it applies to the abortion issue it also applies to the death penalty issue just as much. And we are not talking about the innocense or guilt between a so called murderer or the innocense of a fetus, we are talking about the commandment thou shalt not kill, it does not say that you can apply it here but disregard it in another situation, it says very clearly, thou shalt not kill! But yet this President who says he is a born again christian and against abortion has the record for the most executions ever as governor of Texas.
The other thing I really do not like or appreciate is the President's use of his religion to get re-elected. That to me is very unchristian like to use God to further his political agenda. It reminds me of a preacher begging for money on tv to further his ministry to the poor in his representation of God as a prophet while he himself is wearing a thousand dollar suit and wearing a rolex.

Great points, Mesue!

JKATHERINE · 11-09-2004, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janelle

I don't understand why you say our government has become a criminal organization. The Dems were in charge then when it became one. You should be glad the party has changed and maybe the Republicans with both houses being Republican can retify all that.

You say a good moral center is never a bad thing? Are you saying the coasts are not moral? Now I'm confused.

Maybe we agree more than we know.

You can't be serious. Having Republicans take over the free world, aka America cannot be a good thing. The same can be said for Democrats. I would not want either to be the sole party governing our nation. There is a reason there is more than one. If Republicans were to completely take over, they'd be making us all go to church and basing every single law passed on their 'godly' views. Ick! Don't shove that crap down my throat. I happen to be one of the many people who despise organized religion. I also despise the fact that Bush has used religion to try and fool himself into the good graces of people who call themselves Christian. Religion has no place in how our government is run. It is fine if Bush is religious, but it should not be a campaign tactic to get more votes and it should have no bearing on the laws made. Who is he to take the 'morally superior' role and tell the rest of us what is right and wrong based on his own skewed religious beliefs?

JKATHERINE · 11-09-2004, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigLyd1

I say AMEN to that. As a matter of fact, I'm insulted (not for the obvious reasons) that my state is not in Jesus Land.

That's a good point about getting rid of God in our country. I think the liberal Dems are starting to get that reputation and it's not nice to not like God.

I'm sure hoping that's not what YNKYHTR is saying.

That's definately not what he's saying. It's fine to like God. It's fine to be religious, but it's not fine to run the government based on religion and it's not fine to shove it down others' throats.

JKATHERINE · 11-09-2004, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Njean31

i can't speak for janelle but i can think of a couple of examples of Christians rights becoming eroded, NO PRAYER IN SCHOOL, TREND TOWARD MUTING GOD'S NAME IN GOVERNMENT/PUBLIC MEETINGS AND BUILDINGS, NO MORE PLAYS AT CHRISTMAS TIME IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS REFLECTING THE REAL MEAINING OF CHRISTMAS...removing the TEN COMMANDMENTS in courthouses/public buildings. it's just a matter of time before the motto "IN GOD WE TRUST" is off the currency. i'm sure i can think of more examples, but that's a snipet

A lot of what you have mentioned above are sad examples of a few bad apples who want to spoil the bunch. Although I do not like organized religion and am a person who cannot be called 'religious,' I have no problem whatsoever with children who want to pray in school (as long as it is not a school-wide, required thing). I also have no problem with the Pledge of Allegiance the way it is, the 10 Commandments at that courthouse in the South, 'In God We Trust' on our currency or plays about Mary and Jesus. I especially despise the fact that some schools are not allowed to celebrate Christmas anymore. As long as other celebrations are integrated (ie. Hannukah, Kwanza, etc.), there shouldn't be a problem. Some people are just too stuffy and just out there to make trouble I guess.

Bick'sMom · 11-09-2004, 09:43 AM

So this United States of Canada thing...........what exactly does that mean? If it means that you think that Canadians believe in getting rid of guns, getting rid of prayer in school, and not fighting this war....then you need to take a trip to Canada. If it doesn't I apologize, just ask for an explanation.

JKATHERINE · 11-09-2004, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janelle

Look at all the school shootings---and killings. How has our country come to this? Doesn't it horrify you? Our kids think killing is the answer to problems. That is NOTwhat Jesus taught but teachers cannot tell the kids what Jesus taught cause they're not allowed to speak Jesus's name on school property or at least in the classroom.

Some people still do not understand how Christians think. When you tell us we can't talk about Jesus you might as well be telling us to shut up about our family. Sit down and stop talking about your father and your brother. God is our Father, heavenly. Jesus if our Brother, heavenly.

We have been told for years to shut up with the talk about what your family believes. We don't want to hear about your family. In fact, we think your family is stupid. Don't bring your family to school, don't show any pictures of your family in here. We live our religion. We would have a split personality if we didn't.

No, teachers cannot tell kids what Jesus taught because it's wrong. Not everyone is religious. Not everyone believes in Jesus. Religion should not be forced on anyone. That is why we have religious schools.

As far as family. I've never heard anyone tell a child not to bring their 'family' into the school. In fact, I've taught in schools and I've seen that it's encouraged to talk about their families, to bring in photos, and write stories and reports on family. I'm really sorry that you live in an area that is so messed up that family isnt' allowed in school.