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Old 11-30-2004, 10:28 AM   #243 (permalink)
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Re: Where do you live...?

No, I don’t feel that if you teach your children a simple prayer before meal you are a simple minded person. Nor do I find it wrong. My wife, in fact, used to say her prayers before bed; I believe she will most likely teach them to our daughter too.

Religious text, teachings, and prayer in public school is always a touchy subject. Some people practice they’re faith on Sunday, some practice it five times a day. That may be the thinking of some school administration officials when it comes to Islamic students in public schools; it represses their religious beliefs from denying them their prayer. (Just an observation) While modern Baptist/Methodists practice on Sunday. Catholics and most Jewish people have their own schools to do with as they please.

I don’t know anything about Native American heritage or spiritual practice. But I do know there is no controversy surrounding it because their spiritual belief does not encompass Jesus. Obviously Christian type faiths Baptist/Methodists and the like see Jesus is the focal point of their beliefs. Islam and Muslim do not. So there is conflict right there. I think it is about avoiding conflict, fights and ostracizing.

This is one of the reasons I don’t like religion in the first place, the conflicts that ensue over different beliefs.

The schools do not have it easy. Have you ever been to a school board meeting and discussed the whole religious nature of the students versus the rules governing the schools? I think if you were to ask them why they take the stance they do then you might be able to see their point of view.
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Old 11-30-2004, 02:19 PM   #244 (permalink)
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Re: Where do you live...?

I'd bet most students in our public schools are Christians. When in Rome and all that stuff you know. Go back to how it was before prayer or the mention of God was prohibited and I think most people would be happy. No teaching religion but no denying it either.
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Old 11-30-2004, 04:01 PM   #245 (permalink)
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Re: Where do you live...?

I think it depends on the person. How important is it for some people to pray before they learn? For some cultures their beliefs are the focal point for their government, way of life, thought, foreign policy, laws, diet, education, choice of clothes, music, reading material, occupation, who they marry, how many children they have, where they are buried, how they are inturned, when they vaction, where they go, who runs the household, how much they tithe, if they tithe, their views on themselves, each other, their parents, and just about anythigng else I haven't thought of.

I think it is safe to say that some cultures are more religious than Americans are. Or at least they show it outwardly more. Like, for example, some people believe that if they die in service of their diety then they are assured a place in heaven, and they do just that. We are all different, and we all have to respect each other for what we all are, human.

And I think that is what it comes down to. Respect. We show respect to others who come here by allowing them to live their lives with out fear of rights being violated. This is a great country, and it those people that choose to become citizens that make it great. We are rich in diversity, now we just need to embrace it.
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Old 11-30-2004, 05:35 PM   #246 (permalink)
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Re: Where do you live...?

I have just read this whole thread. I have read previously that the Republicans voted for religion and the Democrats voted for the economy.
There is no need for me to add what I feel about all the different subjects but I do feel strongly about all the subjects mentioned. My vote for Kerry was as much a vote against Bush as for Kerry. I think a politician will say anything he needs to say to get elected. I don't understand why we can't have some people have the religion they want and others not. I don't understand why we had to choose between religion and starving people because that is the choice I think we made. And our country as a nation chose to let many of our people continue to starve, remain homeless, go without medical treatment so they could prevent same sex marriages etc. I don't get it. God loves us all but together we decided to let these bad things continue to happen. We did it, so now some of us will suffer for it but not all of us. That is the sad part.
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Old 11-30-2004, 05:45 PM   #247 (permalink)
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Re: Where do you live...?

Wow, you read the whole thread? Good for you. there are some threads I do that for too. Sometimes I have to stop for a snack. LOL! But you brought a good point. In the end I see and some others do too, that Bush ogt elected based on morals and religous belief rather than on his record of the previous four years. Plus I also feel strongly that he played upon the fears of people using terrorism and 9/11 as a platform to get elected. I will admit that the democrats could have and should have had a stronger candidate. But regardless, with his track record he really should not have gotten in. Where is he now? Apologzing to the Canadians.
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Old 11-30-2004, 06:10 PM   #248 (permalink)
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Why is he apoligizing to the Canadians ?? Because of all the 'Disappointed' & 'Disenchanted' who suddenly want to move there ??

I voted for Bush because I wanted Bush to remain in office. Kerry has *yet* to reveal his plans for all the changes he wanted to make. And I agree, a politician will say anything he needs to say to get elected - which is a reason to vote *against* Kerry. He tailored his speech to his audience a little too much and a little too often. I have heard several people say that they were not voting 'for Kerry'; they were voting against Bush. To the end, that seem Kerry's main platform and ( as I said for months ) "I hate Bush" was not enough to gain him a seat in the Oval Office.
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Old 12-02-2004, 08:21 PM   #249 (permalink)
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Re: Where do you live...?

If Democrats want to get back in the "values" game and change the perception of their party as being full of secularists intent on removing any reference to G-d from culture and even the history of America, they can start in the government schools. That's where reverent or favorable mentions of G-d are often prohibited, but using His name as a curse word is protected by the same First Amendment that supposedly prohibits the favorable mention of His name.

Democrats have an ideal case that they could make their own in the San Francisco suburb of Cupertino, where a fifth-grade public school teacher has filed a discrimination lawsuit against his school. The teacher, Steven Williams, says he has been prohibited by the school principal, Patricia Vidmar, from teaching the Declaration of Independence and other founding documents of the United States because they often refer to G-d .


It's one thing to ban contemporary attempts to use the schools to proselytize. It is quite another to censor history. It is a fact beyond dispute that the Founders often referred to G-d or "Divine Providence" or "the Almighty" in their public lives. Ignoring or censoring such facts presents a false history of our nation and denies students their right to know the truth.


According to Williams' lawsuit, among the other materials rejected by the principal were George Washington's journal, John Adams' diary, Samuel Adams' "The Rights of the Colonists" and William Penn's "The Frame of Government of Pennsylvania."


Democrats could make political hay for their party and do a good deed for public school students by opposing the extension of political correctness to history books and historical documents.


Attempts to expunge references to G-d , past or present, are not limited to one California school. In Maryland, there is a dispute concerning what may and may not be properly taught in that state's public schools.


The Washington Times carried a Capital News Service (CNS) story Nov. 23 that reported that when teachers instruct about the 17th-century origins of Thanksgiving, they can only say the Pilgrims thanked the Indians and cannot say they also thanked G-d for their safe journey and for the bounty set before them.


The story quoted Charles Ridgell, the director of curriculum and instruction for St. Mary's County Public Schools (they had better change the county's name to something other than "St. Mary's" to be consistent): "We teach about Thanksgiving from a purely historical perspective, not from a religious perspective." It is impossible to accurately teach about Thanksgiving without including the "religious perspective." The Pilgrims believed they were directed by G-d to make their journey to America and owed thanks to Him for a safe trip and good crops.


Maryland Gov. Robert L. Ehrlich Jr., a Republican, disputes the CNS report. He says the state does not bar teachers from addressing the religious aspects of Thanksgiving. But school administrators from several Maryland counties said that they don't include religious materials in their curriculums. So while the state may not ban religious historical references, local officials apparently are doing so on their own authority.


This is a ready-made issue for Democrats to jump on and save the history of our country. While they're at it, they might also want to look at efforts by certain Islamists to infiltrate public schools with teachings about their religion.


As Daniel Pipes detailed in the Nov. 24 issue of Front PageMagazine, the 15th tip in a list of "18 tips for Imams and Community Leaders" from the Islamic Web site www.SoundVision.com is "Establish a parents' committee to monitor public schools." The committee, Pipes writes, is to "arrange for Muslims to deliver talks about Islam and Muslims" in the schools.


Pipes summarizes other suggestions from www.DawaNet.com, including: "Lobby to include Islamic dates on the school calendar;" "Add books and magazines about Islam . . . to the school library;" and "Incorporate Islam into class projects. 'For example, if students are required to give a speech in class and they can choose any topic, an Islamic subject should be selected. Similar opportunities can be created in history, social science, writing and other classes.'"


So, while the history and faith of our own country is being erased and a spiritual vacuum created, Islamists are rushing to fill that vacuum with the history and faith of another country.


Will Democrats ride to the rescue?


Cal Thomas

November 30, 2004
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Old 12-03-2004, 10:06 AM   #250 (permalink)
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Re: Where do you live...?

"Thank you for calling America, unfortunatly the Democrats are not running things right now. If you have a problem with our country please press pound and you will be directed to a listing of the Republicans that are in charge. Please stay on the line while our directory is being updated as some many people are stepping down from their post. There will be a hymnal while you wait."
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Old 12-03-2004, 12:49 PM   #251 (permalink)
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Old 12-03-2004, 01:11 PM   #252 (permalink)
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Re: Where do you live...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by YNKYH8R
There will be a hymnal while you wait."
may i suggest "I can only Imagine", not exactly a hymnal but close
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Old 12-03-2004, 01:54 PM   #253 (permalink)
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Re: Where do you live...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolie Rouge
his whol diatribe was directed at the Democrats. What can Democrats do about peoples complaints with the school system the Republicans are running the show.
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