YNKYH8R

I never said I felt nothing, in fact I was mor ethan over joyed that our daughter was born. I was refering to maknig a connection with GOD. My quote was. I've been told that I would find GOD or have a growing faith if I lost someone close to me or I have child, i've hed both I've felt nothing.

There was probably a misunderstanding so no problem I just wanted to make myself clear.

That is a good question who does decide another's qualityof life, I guess you have to compare it to your own. You have to put yourslef in to that persons shoes and ask if you would be happyin their situation. And for some people you can only od the best you can.
I 'm glad to hear you have a lot of consideration for your mother, I'm not surprised. Or at least I wouldn't put it past you.

I made the comment on drinking and drug use and fetus aborting on its own because there are other instances in life where people are drunk or on drugs and kill someone accidentally, depending on the situation a criminal prosocution is begun against the drunk or high person. Now in the case of a pregnant person who does this to there own body could they be brought up on criminal charges considering what happened in the Peterson caes? Yes he knew about the child, but still some consider it a life even if the life isn't recognized by the parent. Just curious, becuase I got thinking about the Peterson case, this is definatley going to shape the way the law looks at abortion.

Damnifiknw, I've never been accused of being a Christian, although I do have (what I feel is) a good moral center and a good set of ethics, they stem from the belief that we are all human, with feelings, prone to mistakes and dserve consideration and respect because of that if I am considered a Christian so be it...they just can't make me wear one of those funny hats.

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janelle

Well I did think you felt something when your baby was born I just wanted you to think about it. You felt love---God is love---you felt God. LOL

I love cynical young men.LOL My SS is one right now too. "I don't believe in a God, I've never seen Him, He's never talked to me, He needs to prove He exists, He's never knocked on my door". But you guys are still searching and that is great. You have good hearts and you will find what you are searching for. We all search until we die or we die cause we stop searching.

As far as deciding on quality of life from our own feelings, that is very dangerous. I can't decide for someone else if they are happy by observing them. I know people with disabilities and they have very good lives from their point of view. Some are happier than lots of people who are healthy.

As far as killing a pre-born baby, many think it's murder. Lots of parents have had their babies killed this way but have no recourse cause our society has said it's not human. Now some states are making laws to say if you kill a baby in uterio you are guilty of murder. No, abortionists do not like this cause they do this everyday and it just may affect them someday when they can be charged with murder.

See how one thing can lead to another? Christians or pro-life people have known this for a long time. This is how we got to this point today. We fell down in our duties to humankind and now we have lost millions to our ignorance.

YNKYH8R

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YNKYH8R

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YNKYH8R

Pope worries about drop in U.S. vocations
Pontiff says priests' decline presents 'stark challenge' for church

The Associated Press
Updated: 9:38 a.m. ET Nov. 26, 2004


VATICAN CITY - Pope John Paul II expressed concern Friday over the decline in priestly vocations in the United States, telling visiting American bishops that the drop presents a “stark challenge” that cannot be ignored.

He also suggested, in an apparent reference to the clergy sex abuse scandal, that seminary training needs to be tightened to instill a commitment to “holiness and spiritual wisdom.”

The pope has raised the sex abuse scandal and other problems facing the U.S. church as American bishops have been making a periodic visit to the Vatican throughout the year.

In Friday’s address to bishops from Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska and Missouri, the pope outlined how bishops must provide for the future of the church.

“No one can deny that the decline in priestly vocations represents a stark challenge for the church in the United States, and one that cannot be ignored or put off,” the pope said.

He urged a program of vocational promotion and a national day of prayer for priestly vocations.

The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops says nearly 500 new priests were ordained in 2003, down about half from 1965.

The pope’s reference to seminaries comes amid plans for a Vatican-sponsored investigation of U.S. seminaries, a project stemming from the abuse crisis. The outgoing president of the U.S. Catholic bishops, Bishop Wilton D. Gregory, has said onsite visits should start within a year.

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Jolie Rouge

'DON'T IMPOSE YOUR VALUES' ARGUMENT IS BIGOTRY IN DISGUISE
Sun Nov 21, 2004
By John Leo

I am struggling to understand the "don't impose your values" argument. According to this popular belief, it is wrong, and perhaps dangerous, to vote your moral convictions unless everybody else already shares them. Of course if everybody already shares them, no imposition would be necessary.

Nobody ever explains exactly what constitutes an offense in voting one's values, but the complaints appear to be aimed almost solely at conservative Christians, who are viewed as divisive when they try to "force their religious opinions on us." But as UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh writes, "That's what most lawmaking is -- trying to turn one's opinions on moral or pragmatic subjects into law."


Those who think Christians should keep their moral views to themselves, it seems to me, are logically bound to deplore many praiseworthy causes, including the abolition movement, which was mostly the work of the evangelical churches courageously applying Christian ideas of equality to the entrenched institution of slavery. The slaveowners, by the way, frequently used "don't impose your values" arguments, contending that whether they owned blacks or not was a personal and private decision and therefore nobody else's business. The civil rights movement, though an alliance of Christians, Jews and nonbelievers, was primarily the work of the black churches arguing from explicitly Christian principles.


The "don't impose" people make little effort to be consistent, deploring, for example, Catholics who act on their church's beliefs on abortion and stem cells, but not Catholics who follow the pope's insistence that rich nations share their wealth with poor nations, or his opposition to the death penalty and the invasion of Iraq.


If the "don't impose" people wish to mount a serious argument, they will have to attack "imposers" on both sides of the issues they discuss, not just their opponents. They will also have to explain why arguments that come from religious beliefs are less worthy than similar arguments that come from secular principles or simply from hunches or personal feelings. Nat Hentoff, a passionate opponent of abortion, isn't accused of imposing his opinions because he is an atheist. The same arguments and activity by a Christian activist would likely be seen as a violation of some sort.


Consistency would also require the "don't impose" supporters to speak up about coercive schemes intended to force believers to violate their own principles: anti-abortion doctors and nurses who are required in some jurisdictions to study abortion techniques; Catholic agencies forced to carry contraceptive coverage in health plans; evangelical college groups who believe homosexuality is a sin defunded or disbanded for not allowing gays to become officers in their groups; the pressure from the ACLU and others to force the Boy Scouts to admit gays, despite a Supreme Court ruling that the Scouts are entitled to go their own way.


Then there is the current case of Rocco Buttiglione, an Italian Christian Democrat who was named to be justice and home affairs commissioner of the European Union, then rejected for having an opinion that secular liberals find repugnant: He believes homosexuality is a sin. The Times of London attacked the hounding of Buttiglione "for holding personal beliefs that are at odds with the prevailing social orthodoxy ... despite a categorical statement that he would not let those beliefs intrude upon policy decisions." The Times said this is a clear attempt by Buttiglione's opponents to impose their views. No word of protest yet from "don't impose" proponents.


Sometimes the "don't impose" argument pops up in an odd form, as when John Kerry tried to define the stem-cell argument as science vs. ideology. But the stem-cell debate in fact featured ideology vs. ideology: the belief that the chance to eliminate many diseases outweighs the killing of infinitesimal embryos vs. the belief that killing embryos for research is a moral violation and a dangerous precedent. Both arguments are serious moral ones.


Those who resent religiously based arguments often present themselves as rational and scientific, whereas people of faith are dogmatic and emotional. This won't do. As professor Volokh argues, "All of our opinions are ultimately based on unproven and unprovable moral premises." No arguments are privileged because they come from secular people, and none are somehow out of bounds because they come from people of faith. Religious arguments have no special authority in the public arena, but the attempt to label those arguments as illegitimate because of their origin is simply a fashionable form of prejudice. Dropping the "don't impose" argument would be a step toward improving the political climate.

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Laissez les bon temps rouler! Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.** a 4 day work week & sex slaves ~ I say Tyt for PRESIDENT! Not to be taken internally, literally or seriously ....Suki ebaynni IS THAT BETTER ?

Jolie Rouge

Saturday, November 27, 2004
Funny old anti-Commie comic book

"Just found this link to some really interesting anti-communist propaganda from the 1960's. It's a comic book that looks at what *COULD* happen to *YOU* if those evil commies get their hands on the USA. Endorsed by none other than J. Edgar Hoover himself !" Link : http://www.authentichistory.com/imag.../cover_01.html



(When I read it, I mentally swapped every instance of "communists" with "red-state republicans" or "blue-state democrats" and it was even more enjoyable -- Mark) http://www.boingboing.net/2004/11/27...nticommie.html

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Laissez les bon temps rouler! Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.** a 4 day work week & sex slaves ~ I say Tyt for PRESIDENT! Not to be taken internally, literally or seriously ....Suki ebaynni IS THAT BETTER ?

YNKYH8R

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YNKYH8R

For me the do not impose idea comes from the varied argumentative arrogance of people, who claimed to be Christian, that I have run into in the past. For example I happen to be around a group of people and the conversation turned toward religious beliefs. After my departure with one of the other people in the discussion I said “That was pretty interesting huh?”
“Yes,” he replied “although it is too bad that they were all wrong and are going to hell.”

The article is very good, morals are morals, if you teach morals to your children from the Bible more power to you. But the basis for these morals being the only right ones conflict with some of mine and other peoples morals.

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Jolie Rouge

GRACE, GRATITUTE AND GOD
by Michelle Malkin


My 4-year-old daughter recently learned to say grace at mealtimes. I taught her the same little prayer my mom taught me in childhood:

God is great

God is good

Let us thank him for our food

By his hands we all are fed

Give us Lord our daily bread

Amen.



At first, my daughter questioned the need for reciting this strange passage. "Why do we have to thank God?" she wondered.

"To show that we are grateful for our daily bread," I explained.

"What is 'grateful'?" she asked.

"Being appreciative for what we have," I answered.

"But I'm not eating daily bread," she argued in between bites of macaroni and cheese.

"It means whatever fills your tummy each day," I clarified.

"Oh."



In typical toddler fashion, my daughter is now absolutely fanatical about her new routine. Not only must we say grace before every meal, but also before each snack. And anytime we have a drink. And anytime her baby brother gobbles Cheerios in his car seat. Failure to give thanks to God is met with swift retribution. Our daughter has no qualms about chastising us in public -- at restaurants, airports or Starbucks:

"Hey, stop eating! You forgot to say grace!"

Despite the embarrassment it sometimes causes, I love her unrepentant zeal. It reminds us not to take for granted our too-infrequent gestures of daily thanksgiving. It reminds us to be humble. Following her lead, we must all bow our heads and fold our hands and shut our eyes and shout a full-throated "Amen!"

The snobs of secularism will no doubt disparage such simple-minded expressions of piety. They call us "Jesus freaks," "Bible-thumpers" and "fundies." They accuse us of being "weak" and of suffering from a "neurological disorder." They consider us such a threat that they have sought to expunge even the most innocuous references to thanking God in the public schools.


When Garwood, N.J., student Kaeley Hay wrote a Thanksgiving poem mentioning the Pilgrims' gratitude to the Lord, according to the Newark Star-Ledger, skittish administrators initially removed the word "God" from her piece:

Leaves are falling out of the air,
Piles of leaves everywhere.
Scarecrows standing high up with the corn,
Farmers harvest in the early morn.
Pilgrims thank [blank] for what they were given,
Everybody say . . . happy Thanksgiving!


Here in my home state of Maryland, according to the Annapolis Capital, "Maryland public school students are free to thank anyone they want while learning about the 17th century celebration of Thanksgiving -- as long as it's not God."

True to the religio-phobic conception of educational "diversity," Maryland public school officials have turned Thanksgiving into a multicultural harvest devoid of its spiritual essence. Students are taught that Pilgrims had a "belief system," but nothing further. Not to worry, though. "The Pilgrim Story is read in Spanish and English," Alfreda Adams, principal at Mills-Parole Elementary School in Anne Arundel County where 70 Hispanic students attend, told the Capital. "We make sure that we celebrate all cultures."

Such politically correct muddle-headedness explains why Maryland students can't learn Pilgrim prayers in public schools while the town of Hamtramck, Mich., feels free to blast Islamic prayers over public loudspeakers five times a day.

Once an unabashedly pious land, we have been transformed into a nation of historically clueless ingrates -- embarrassed about our heritage, afraid of offending all newcomers, and more committed to inculcating a sense of entitlement over a culture of gratitude. Abe Lincoln's Thanksgiving proclamation of 1863 rings truer than ever:

"We have been the recipients of the choicest bounties of heaven. We have been preserved, the many years, in peace and prosperity. We have grown in numbers, wealth and power, as no other nation has ever grown. But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which preserved us in peace and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us; and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to God that made us!"

Amen.

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Laissez les bon temps rouler! Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.** a 4 day work week & sex slaves ~ I say Tyt for PRESIDENT! Not to be taken internally, literally or seriously ....Suki ebaynni IS THAT BETTER ?

Jolie Rouge

by Linda Chavez


Thanksgiving has always been my favorite holiday, a time to reflect on the many blessings bestowed on this great nation while enjoying the company of family and friends. It's hard to imagine that anyone could consider the celebration controversial or feel the need to censor Thanksgiving discussions among schoolchildren. But when it comes to political correctness, no holiday is safe. Having turned Christmas and Hanukkah into amorphous winter festivals, now some school districts want to rob Thanksgiving of its historical roots. Apparently some school officials worry that the religious overtones of Thanksgiving might represent a chink in the wall secularists insist separates church and state, so they proscribe any mention of Who it is the nation thanks on this day.

In Maryland, the Capital News Service recently reported, "students are free to thank anyone they want while learning about the 17th-century celebration of Thanksgiving -- as long as it isn't God."

George Washington had no such qualms when he proclaimed the first day of thanksgiving in 1789: "It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor." In 1863, Abraham Lincoln declared a national day of "Thanksgiving and Praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the Heavens." In the midst of civil war, President Lincoln thought the day should be used to "fervently implore the interposition of the Almighty Hand to heal the wounds of the nation and to restore it as soon as may be consistent with the Divine purposes to the full enjoyment of peace, harmony, tranquility and Union." And even President George W. Bush soberly reminded guests who came to the White House last week to witness the mock pardoning of the "First Turkey" that "in this nation of many faiths, we ask that the Almighty God continue to bless us and to watch over us."

Religious faith is at the heart of Thanksgiving. The Pilgrims were Puritan dissenters who left England as a form of religious protest against the Anglican Church, which they felt retained too much of the pomp and ceremony of Roman Catholicism. After surviving a brutal first winter in their new colony of Plymouth, the Pilgrims celebrated the harvesting of their first crops by giving thanks to the Creator Whose Providence they believed was responsible. But that part of the Thanksgiving story is largely missing from most public school curricula. Teachers may encourage schoolchildren to mimic the Pilgrims' dress -- wearing black hats, stiff collars, big buckles and white leggings -- or recreate the banquet the colonists enjoyed, but they forbid them from acknowledging the true roots of the holiday.

Ironically, some school guides devote more time to teaching about the origin of the Wampanoag traditions of thanksgiving than they do the Puritans'. Several guides mentioned the importance these Native Americans attached to giving thanks to the Creator for the crops they grew in each season. Apparently it is permissible to teach about the Indians' belief in a Divine Being, just not a Judeo-Christian one. In one online teachers' guide, I found references to Kiehtan, the Wampanoag name for the Creator, as well as lesson plans that encouraged students to thank "Mother Earth" for her bounty. Indeed, many of the study guides and teachers' resources available online placed greater emphasis on the role Indians played in the first Thanksgiving than that of the Pilgrims. While most of the guides depicted the Indians giving thanks to the Creator, the Pilgrims were largely confined to giving thanks to the Wampanoag for saving them from the ravages of the harsh Massachusetts winter.

No one is suggesting children should be forced to pray as part of their public school Thanksgiving celebrations, but they should not be denied learning an important lesson in American history. The founders of this nation were a deeply religious people, and Americans remain among the most religious people in the world. Religious faith has guided the development of our democracy and imbues our leaders still with a belief in the worth of every man, woman and child. When we sit down to our Thanksgiving feasts, we should remember and thank God for that.


Originally Published on Wednesday November 24, 2004

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Laissez les bon temps rouler! Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.** a 4 day work week & sex slaves ~ I say Tyt for PRESIDENT! Not to be taken internally, literally or seriously ....Suki ebaynni IS THAT BETTER ?