Jolie Rouge

By CURT ANDERSON

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/st...574.htm&sc=1152

WASHINGTON (AP) - Seeking to bolster support for the Patriot Act, the Justice Department provided Congress on Tuesday with details of numerous cases in which the anti-terrorism law has been used.

The 29-page report is part of a Bush administration effort to discourage Congress from weakening a law that critics say threatens civil liberties by giving authorities more latitude to spy on people. Key sections of the law expire at the end of 2005.

Release of the document comes less than a week after House Republican leaders barely turned back an amendment that would have prevented the FBI from using Patriot Act authority to obtain library and bookstore records.

The report says that in the period starting with the Sept. 11 attacks and ending May 5, Justice Department terrorism investigations resulted in charges against 310 people, with 179 convictions or guilty pleas. The Patriot Act, it says, was instrumental in these cases.


Attorney General John Ashcroft, appearing at a news conference with House Judiciary Committee Chairman James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., said the report provides ``a mountain of evidence that the Patriot Act continues to save lives.' The Patriot Act is al-Qaida's worst nightmare,'' Ashcroft said.


Among the specific examples:

It allowed intelligence agents to share with FBI criminal investigators evidence that an anonymous letter sent to the FBI had come from an individual with al-Qaida ties. That letter began the investigation into an alleged terror cell in Lackawanna, N.Y., that has resulted in six guilty pleas.


That same information-sharing authority was used against members of an alleged terror cell in Portland, Ore., that an undercover informant said was preparing for possible attacks against Jewish schools or synagogues. Continued surveillance under the Patriot Act of one suspect led to six others, who likely would have scattered or fled if the first suspect had been arrested right away.


Terror financing provisions of the law were used in numerous cases, including charges against a member of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, on charges of being an unlicensed money transmitter. The same authority has been used to prosecute people illegally sending money to Iraq, Yemen, the United Arab Emirates and India.


Powers permitted under the Patriot Act have also been used in investigations involving potential school bomb attacks, computer hackers, child pornography, violent fugitives and illegal weapons sales. In one case, Patriot Act electronic communications authorities allowed law enforcement agencies to identify a person who had sent 200 threatening letters laced with white powder in Lafayette, La., the department said.


The report did not say whether the FBI had used its authority to obtain library or bookstore records. That information is classified, but Ashcroft last year issued a declassified statement saying that, up to that point, the power had not been used.


Rep. John Conyers of Michigan, ranking Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, accused the department of selectively releasing information about the Patriot Act and refusing to address civil liberties concerns. "Coupled with the department's consistent record of exaggerating their record about terrorism, this entire report is suspect,'' Conyers said.


Sensenbrenner said opponents were also guilty of being selective in information they use to undermine the law. ``The people who criticize the Patriot Act cherry-pick their contentions the same way,'' he said.


On the Net:

Justice Department: www.usdoj.gov

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Laissez les bon temps rouler! Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.** a 4 day work week & sex slaves ~ I say Tyt for PRESIDENT! Not to be taken internally, literally or seriously ....Suki ebaynni IS THAT BETTER ?

Jolie Rouge

Evil and the Anarchy-Repression Continuum
Jay Bryant
August 24, 2004



There is something liberals don't get about civil liberty, and that conservatives have done a poor job of explaining.

Let's try and sort it out, by starting with the concept of law enforcement and its relationship to liberty.

We need think only a few seconds to realize that all law enforcement infringes to some extent on the liberty of innocent people. You pay taxes for the salary and expenses of the first cop hired, and the minute you do so, you have given up the liberty to spend that money in some other way. From that point on, in a thousand ways, it can be shown to be necessary for the innocent to sacrifice something in order for the policeman to his job. You may be required to drive only on the right hand side of the road. You may be required to give up your free time to serve on jury duty, or testify in court. You may be required to show identification in order to cash a check,or enter a building. You may have to pass through a metal detector in order to board an airplane.

How much of this loss of liberty is to be permitted? Where is the line to be drawn on the continuum between anarchy and repression? This is the constant task of public policy.

Let us now pause to consider my selection of the word "repression" in the above paragraph. I'm not happy with it, because it seems too strong, but it is the best option I have. As I mean it, it describes a society where civil liberties have been overly "repressed" in the interest of advancing domestic tranquility and the common welfare. I've never been to Singapore, but as itis often described, it would seem to me a repressive society.

In the end, defining the golden mean between anarchy and repression is a subjective exercise. I, for example, would not willingly live in one of those communities where an active homeowners' association is empowered to restrict my freedom in regard to things like landscaping, siding, fencing, etc. You, on the other hand, may find such "laws" perfectly acceptable in the interest of creating an orderly and pleasant neighborhood.


I've spent all this time on the meaning of "repression" in order to distinguish it from what it is not. It may well describe present-day Singapore, or even present-day America. But it does not describe the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Ba'athist Iraq or Taliban Afghanistan.

The continuum that runs through seat belt laws, capital punishment and the designation of captives in the War on Terrorism as "detainees" rather than "prisoners" does not go there.

There's a discontinuity. Some other factor is needed beyond the incrementalism of the anarchy-repression continuum. Otherwise you do not get to the Gulag, the gas chambers or the mass graves of Iraq. And that factor is what liberals miss because, well, because they don't believe in it.

That factor is evil – specifically, evil intent on the part of national leaders. A leader who seeks a better life for the people may define that goal in a way that moves up or down the continuum. But that's not what Hitler, Stalin or Saddam was trying to do.

They were not overly harsh on people suspected of crimes, or treason. They invented those charges against utterly innocent people in order to terrorize, bolster their power, serve some ideological objective or feed their blood lust. They were, in a word, evil.

Robert Conquest writes of Neville Chamberlain that he "could not conceive of anyone whose attitudes were not more or less within the limits of those prevalent in the Midlands." Churchill, on the other hand, was not deceived by Hitler, not because he was more intelligent, but because he had "a knowledge of history, and of evil" (my emphasis).

Now, you may argue that a society that moves too far toward repression will make itself more likely to fall under the sway of evil leaders. Perhaps, but I have racked my brain and can find no example in all of human history which supports that proposition, although one can make a case for movement in the opposite direction, and cite both the Bolsheviks and Nazis.


Please understand, I am not making a case for repression here. I believe myself to favor a nation farther toward anarchy than most other people I know. But when threatened by evil, I am prepared to make sacrifices, including such things as airline metal detectors, even though I am not really convinced they do much good. You must fight evil, or succumb to it. You cannot negotiate with it, as the failure of Chamberlain and so very many subsequent western liberals demonstrates. The only legitimate reasons ever to negotiate with an evil leader are to perpetrate trickery or stall for time.

But if you attempt serious negotiation – you get this and he gets that – with a Brezhnev, Milosevic or Osama, you may as well engage in plea-bargaining with Charles Manson.

Whatever you give up is a dead loss.

The leading modern authority on evil, author and Time Magazine writer Lance Morrow, notes that "many people do not believe evil exists," and echoes Conquest in saying, "The children of the Enlightenment sometimes have an inadequate understanding of the possibilities of the Endarkenment."

He believes it is "fatuous" to deny the existence of evil, cautioning also against tossing the word around irresponsibly. I agree; neither John Kerry nor George W. Bush is evil, no matter how many faults you may find in one, the other or both.

For Morrow, evil has "a wandering, fluid quality," which "seeks its opportunities and settles in like a parasite."

Did it settle in the Third Reich? Of course. In the Soviet Union? Read Anne Applebaum's Pulitzer-winning Gulag and tell me it did not. In al-Qaeda? How else to explain 9/11? Among the RUF of Sierra Leone? Ask the children whose limbs they hacked off.

There was an Evil Empire, and there is today an Axis of Evil. And we face, moreover, no danger of becoming evil incrementally. The continuum we are on doesn't go there.

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Laissez les bon temps rouler! Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.** a 4 day work week & sex slaves ~ I say Tyt for PRESIDENT! Not to be taken internally, literally or seriously ....Suki ebaynni IS THAT BETTER ?

kvmj

We "liberals" believe that evil exists. I, for instance, believe that we should not throw the constitution out the window.

mesue

When I read about the PATRIOT ACT, I can't help but realize that we are essentially giving up fundamental rights to feel safer and in doing such I do not feel safer at all, much more vulnerable. I also recall that many of the people we put into office to vote on these things did not even bother reading it before they passed it. And it always reminds me of the writings of Martin Neemoller
First they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- because I was not a Jew
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out-- because I was not a communist
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out-- because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me and by then there was no one left to speak out for me

stresseater

I too love that quote. However I see the patriot act as a way for us to defend ourselves before they come for us.....and they are comming. Law biding people have nothing to fear it is the people who would do us harm that this is designed to protect against. Will there be some cases where it is misused, yes. As with any law there will be mistakes, look at the three strikes law. There have been miscarriages of this law as well but the upper courts are suppose to be there for just that reason, to overrule lower courts when there is a miscarriage of justice.. The courts will rule in those cases and hopefully we can learn from those mistakes.

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**** The views and opinions stated by kids=stress are simply that. Views and opinions. They are not meant to slam anyone else or their views.To anyone whom I may have offended by this expression of my humble opinion, I hereby recognized and appologized to you publically.

mesue

Are you aware that they can take you or anyone based on very little info just someones suspicion and lock you away for months without access to a lawyer or for that matter they don't even have to notify your family that they have you, in many cases that I have read about families found out months later where their loved one were. I can't see how denying anyone access to a lawyer or notifying your family that you are being detained is helping to keep anyone safe. Giving up our fundamental rights that have stood the test of time is not protecting anyone. Imagine for a moment that you order pizza on a fairly regular basis you have a really crazy suspicious neighbor, your pizza delivery guy is from the middle east or looks like he is. You like him he is a nice guy, you slip him a big tip on occassion and a card, you feel sorry for him he is very lonely and starved for his family and misses them, you have gotten to know him well. One day they come to your door because the nosy neighbor has decided something is not right, in investigating they find he has a distant cousin who might be a terrorist. You have been seen chatting with him about current events and his native land and passing him notes and money. She has overheard you discussing 911 with him, she has overheard you innocently telling him all about your trip to DC and how amazed you are at the layout of the city, next thing you know you are locked away for months with no access to a lawyer, no access to family or friends, you are just locked away in a cell until they want to deal with you. Please tell how that is helping anyone. I realize we have to protect ourselves, but not at the expense of fundamental rights. They said right after 911 the way to fight the terrorist was to go on and do as we had done before but yet now we are supposed to give up our rights, how is that protecting anyone? How is that fighting terrorism?

stresseater

It's all hyperboyle and scare tactics. Nothing like this or even remotely like this has happened. They are not, nor will the American public allow this to happen and most people know this. It is however now possible to keep people from useing our own public libraries to find information on our installations,weapons, and security to do us horm. It also allows for a faster response in finding responsible parties after the fact. I'm sure there are people out there that believe the black helicopters are already hovering over their house. I just don't happen to be one of them. In your example chances are homeland security already has the neighbor on their "list". Trust me I understand FULLY what is at stake to be lost if the Patriot Act is misused.

__________________
**** The views and opinions stated by kids=stress are simply that. Views and opinions. They are not meant to slam anyone else or their views.To anyone whom I may have offended by this expression of my humble opinion, I hereby recognized and appologized to you publically.

mesue

I'm glad you do understand, here is a real person suffering greatly I'm sure she understands more than you and I could ever imagine what is at stake, please read this story and tell me what you think? also listing the link
http://www.nothomelandsecurity.com/AmericanChildren.htm

This is a true story of how in one day with no warning two American children,
Joshua and Sandra McClurg, lost their single mother to the Department of Homeland Security on July 01, 2004.


Most Americans may not realize the fact that American Children under the age of twenty-one do not have what should be their most basic right and that is the right to a natural parent. Every day American children lose a parent to the Department of Homeland Security. American children whose parents are not United States citizen’s may be in jeopardy of having their parent or parents deported to their natural born country, regardless of the years they have established their homes and families in the US.


It seems unfair that here in America, Land of the Free, that our children do not have the freedom or the right to their natural parent if that parent is not an American citizen.


What happens to these children when a parent is abruptly taken away from them without any warning or preparation? One could only imagine the devastation and repercussions of a destroyed family.


Immigration and Naturalization have dramatically increased efforts to deport immigrant residents. Therefore any immigrants, regardless of the fact that they may have permanent residence status, families, children and spouses are subject to deportation and are being scrutinized for any blemishes they may have in their past.


Our US children should be spared the wrath of our countries anger, resulting from 911 tragedies.


On June 30, 2004 Penny McClurg responded to a letter she had received in the mail from the Department of Homeland Security. The letter requested her to report to Tampa International Airport Airside F. Penny made the necessary arrangements to have her children cared for, while she attended this appointment. Upon arriving at the airport airside F, she called the telephone number listed on the letter and informed the respondent on the phone that she was waiting at the instructed area as described in the letter. The operator told her that they would send someone to escort her into the terminal. Penny waited approximately 30 minutes; however nobody came to escort her. Penny called the number on the letter again and told the operator that she had been waiting. The operator then asked her if she was sure she had an appointment letter to come in because they were apparently not expecting her.


A Department of Homeland Security officer finally arrived and escorted her through to the secured airside F terminal and asked her to be seated in an office area. She was greeted by a Department of Homeland Security officer by the name of Mr. Guthier and told to remain seated and that he would be with her shortly. Approximately two hours went by before Mr. Guthier motioned her into his office. Inside his office he questioned her about a 1997 felony conviction that she had on her record. She acknowledge the felony conviction and informed him that she he had completed her sentence and probation for this incident.


Penny was sent back out to be seated again and waited another three hours. She had now been in the office approximately five hours.


Mr. Guthier finally came out of his office and informed her that he was not able to get a hold of who he needed to speak to and that she should report back the following morning at 9:00am. Penny reported back the following morning as instructed and this time remained in the seated office area. During this time officer Guthier told her that he was still waiting to get a hold of the person he had been trying to reach the previous day. Approximately three hours went by before Mr. Guthier asked Penny to come into his office. Mr. Guthier told Penny that he had some bad news for her and that she was officially being detained. Penny asked what that meant and officer Guthier informed her that she was basically being arrested and that everything would be explained to her when she arrived at her next destination. Penny asked where she was being taken and she was told by Guthier that he did not know and that someone else would tell her.


Penny did not in her wildest imagination realize that this appointment letter was going to result in her being arrested.


Penny arrived in the US, from South Africa, in 1986 when she was fifteen years old. In 1991 she had received her permanent resident status in the US. Penny is now thirty three years old and is a single mother of two American children ages 10 and 11. She also has an American fiancée and was, at this time, six weeks pregnant with his child. Penny has been residing in the US for the past 18 years and in the last three years established a successful business in the Tampa Bay area. The sudden and abrupt news that she was being incarcerated was devastating to all who know her. There was no time or warning to make any arrangements for her children, home or business. That was it…she was no longer to continue with her life and she had no forewarning to make any preparations for this day.


Penny has now been incarcerated since July 01, 2004. On July 15, 2004 she lost her eight week old unborn child while in detention. She was taken to Jackson Memorial Hospital in Miami in handcuffs and shackles where she was seated in the waiting room for two hours. Penny did not get seen until she finally started to hemorrhage. The doctor informed her that she was miscarrying and proceeded to perform a D&C on her without any anesthesia. Several hours after the procedure she was taken back to Turner Guilford Knight County Jail in Miami in shackles and handcuffs, barely able to keep consciousness while walking, due to the blood loss.


Three days before Penny‘s miscarriage, she submitted a written request to see the facility counsellor. She needed to talk to someone about the depression and stress she was undergoing…how it was affecting her ability to eat, sleep and try to stay calm as she knew that it was essential in order for her to have a healthy pregnancy. Her request went unanswered. In fact, to this day, no official has informed her as to what is happening with her or why she is being detained. No information has been provided by any officials regarding this matter.


Penny has since hired attorney Steven Goldstein and Grant Kaplan to handle her case. She learned, only through the attorneys, that she is being charged with illegal entry into the US.


Penny is being denied entry into the US, resulting from a deferred inspection. This deferred inspection resulted from a cruise Penny took in June of 2003, where she left and reentered the United States within a 4-day period. While in this "deferred inspection" status, Penelope's resident alien card was supposed to be taken and substituted with a temporary card. This did not occur. Instead she was allowed to exit and re-enter the United States twice more in September of 2003 and again in May of 2004.


Penny has been a US permanent resident since 1991 and at no time to her knowledge was this status ever revoked. Her attorney has informed her that these situations are never good and that probably the fastest way out of jail is to ask for expedited deportation, otherwise she could remain in jail indefinitely while trying to fight the case against her.


This is a true story of how in one day with no warning two American children, Joshua and Sandra McClurg, lost their single mother to the Department of Homeland Security on July 01, 2004.

mesue

There has been no follow up by this department or for that matter any US department to make sure that these two American children where to be taken care of. Fortunately for Penny she has her father and fiancée to step in to help with her children, but again no departmental agency has checked to make sure of that. One could only imagine what could have happened if there had been no one to take care of these children.


Penny is currently being held at Turner Guilford Knight County Jail, in a designated woman’s immigration unit. There she has learned of about many other women, who also have American children and that have been separated from them abruptly in this way.


It seems unfair and not traditional with American standards that these children have no voice or rights as American Citizens and that their futures are placed in jeopardy with no one to follow up and make sure that they are surviving as they should be with the appropriate care.


My name is Eric Schmidt, fiancé of Penny McClurg. As a concerned American citizen and ten year Navy veteran, I would like to come forward and let the country know what awful atrocities are going on behind the scenes in our great country, with respect to immigrants.


If I could ask anything of my country in exchange for my ten years of service, it would be to return my fiancée back to her family where she rightfully belongs. She does not belong in indefinite incarceration, waiting for the slow wheels of immigration department.


If any agency would like to pick up this story I am readily available for comment and can be reached at the following:


Eric Schmidt
322 Manatee Lane
Tarpon Springs, FL 34689
321-354-4044 cell
727-938-5374 home 727-944-2699 fax

stresseater

I read that one in OT before I came here and This is an article about a illegal, convicted felon, who by the article didn't follow the rules while leaving the country.. She probablly should have been deported long ago, and yes she is right to be upset about being incarcerated for so long. It frustrates me too that it seems to take so long to deport illegal immigrants. Hopefully the bolstering of the INS through the homeland security act will help to speed up the process. It is still a far cry from snatching up legal, law biding citizans in the middle of the night for talking to the pizza guy.

__________________
**** The views and opinions stated by kids=stress are simply that. Views and opinions. They are not meant to slam anyone else or their views.To anyone whom I may have offended by this expression of my humble opinion, I hereby recognized and appologized to you publically.

mesue

Please see my thread Please read this hrror stroy and sign petitiion in Hey how are things, read the third post about the conditions at the place she is being kept and also read the post where someone researched more and found why she was locked up to begin with, also you missed the something in the above post this woman had received her permanent residence status in the US. She has been an upstanding person, works as an accountant and owns her own home, not someone here illegally.