llbriteyes

I have a question, and its mainly for Janelle, but anyone may answer.

What *exactly* is Michael Shiavo's motive to murder his wife?

Linda

adorkablex

I'm sick of everything being blamed on some big liberal conspiracy.

George W. Bush can appoint all of the conservative judges he wants to, but I seriously doubt there's going to be alot of changes made. If they outlaw abortion, people will just start getting them in the black market or trying to give themselves one with a coat hanger.

And screw "pro-death" this and all of that crap spewed in this thread. It's not pro-death. It's pro-choice. It means that we think EVERYbody should have the right to choose what is best for them. Not that it should be chosen FOR them. I waited 18 years to be able to make my own choices. I'll be double danged if some hillbilly with a title is going to take them away from me.

And everytime I've ever had someone close to me die, all of the religous people in my family say "it was their time", "it was God's plan" etc. Just curious but if God hadn't meant for it to be her time, wouldn't he have changed someone's mind and intervened?

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TexasGal

There are too many people in this case trying to play God. Just because something happens doesn't make it Gods will.

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freebielover

I totally agree with every word you said.

kidzpca

And Her husband has control 'cause legally he has the right...proven time and time again in court.

But as for the parents hmmmmmm could be is it that they just couldn't let thier daughter go even though she was Married to Michael...REMEMBER the Shindlers' were in agreement that Michael was a great son-in-law, Husband etc.

It is only when Michael agreed with the Drs after 8 years that they made Michael the "Scape Goat". Too bad too.

IT is time that Bob Sr and Mary Shindler Grew Up and become adults about this whole situation.

May Terri R.I.P.

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kidzpca

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janelle

I answered this in another thread.

His common law wife wanted to get married, he got all the money that was coming and now it was going to be used up on her care, she was a drain on his new family, and he didn't want the parents to take care of her because of all the fighting and he hates them.

No matter what anyone says a spouse should let parents see their dying daughter, he can step out for the time they have with her. Let her receive the sacraments of her church with interfering and let her be buried in her church without interfering. The last two are freedom of religion and if he was denying her that he is the control freak.

The parents hurting her is rediculous. How could they cause her heart attack? She had her brain injury way before they took care of her.

Jolie Rouge

Terri deserved better from us all
Joe Scarborough

In the time I have been in Congress and a member of the media, I have never worked on a story that has had the personal impact of Terri Schiavo's fight for life.

Why is that?

Thousands have died in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. But no single death has drawn American's attention to their TV sets like Terri's.

Three thousand Americans were slaughtered on September 11th, but I cannot think of a single victim from that epic day whose death came close to grabbing the attention that Terri garnered over the past few weeks.

You probably would have to go back to the death of John Lennon to find a person who was not a president or a princess whose passing stirred up such interest.

So again I ask, why?

What was it about Terri's life and death struggle that divided families, political parties, and religious leaders?

I would like to be able to explain to you what it was about this story that got me more emotionally involved than any political election or vote that I ever took in Congress.

But I can't.

I have a few guesses.

First, the President's involvement in this case this month got the forces of the Left involved in a very personal way. This is, after all, a group whose own thought leaders had suggested of late that many in the movement hated George Bush so much that they were even cheering against American efforts in Iraq.

And then there was Tom DeLay.

Liberals despise Majority Leader DeLay in a way not seen since, well, since George Bush, or Rush Limbaugh, or Ann Coulter, or Mel Gibson, or anyone else with whom they disagree.

Add to the checklist the fact the evangelical and pro-life communities got involved, and suddenly it seemed inevitable that a political gangland war was waiting to happen.

My wife commented this morning that the real tragedy of this case is the fact that Terri Schiavo seemed to be a very shy, unassuming woman who would have deplored the kind of attention that was thrown on her the last few weeks of her life.

I explained to her that there was a bigger issue involved here. The government was allowing the killing of a young, helpless woman without clear and convincing evidence.

She stared at me as if to say that I was missing her point completely.

Sadly, I think Susan's point has been lost on most of us — even those who were fighting for Terri's life because of the shocking truths connected with her death.

This has been a tragedy for all concerned.

But on this day when the debate starts to wind down, it is important that we stop to remember the young woman who was caught in the middle of this ugly political fight.

Goodbye, Terri.

You deserved better from us all.



March 31, 2005


Liberal leaders support Terri
Joe Scarborough

When it comes time for America's elite to construct a straw man worthy of abuse, the Terri Schiavo case proves once again that conservative Christians remain a handy target.

Editorial pages have been filled with thinly disguised vitriol from opinion leaders who always seem to conclude that the decline of American culture began when pesky Christians began organizing themselves politically in 1980.

It is because of these whacked out Christians, elites reason, that Terri Schiavo is still alive. Yes. Further proof that the radical Right Wing Christians have taken over the Republican Party.

Been hearing that one for a quarter century now. If that were true, abortion would be illegal and kids would be praying in school.

And Terri Schiavo would be resting comfortably in her bed.

But the GOP is a diverse party in Florida and across America.

In both the Florida and US Senate, Republican lawmakers refused to take the necessary steps to save Terri Schiavo's life. Instead of blindly following the Christian Right, these politicians followed the polls.

What a relief!

But, interestingly enough, many liberal leaders have proven themselves to be more concerned with Terri's life than being popular among their peers.

The Village Voice's longtime liberal columnist Nat Hentoff wrote a compelling piece in America's premier progressive paper that makes Pat Robertson sound moderate.

Interesting stuff from a self-described atheist whose most recent columns have targeted Don Rumsfeld and America's war machine.

And other old time liberals like Jesse Jackson, Ralph Nader, and Iowa Senator Tom Harkin have all come to Terri Schiavo's defense.

These men are obviously not listening to the Christian Right. Instead, one suspects they are remembering the words of Hubert Humphrey and doing all they can to protect one who has fallen into the shadows of life.

If the straw man fits, beat it.

But in the case of Terri Schiavo, there are those who are neither conservative nor Christian who think it is not such a wonderful thing that we live in a land that sanctions the starvation of the weakest among us.



March 28, 2005


Political dustups give elites bad name
Joe Scarborough



Every year or so, we have a cultural debate that seems to divide Americans into two camps. And as you have learned from this week's shows, it is not always Republicans fighting Democrats.

I know many Republicans who support Michael Schiavo's efforts to end his wife's life, and I know many Democrats who agree with me that starving Terri to death is inhumane and beneath us as a country.

But it is during these kind of dustups in American culture that elites earn their bad name.

Too many sniff and snort at any hayseed or redneck who dares to question their take on Jesus, Janet Jackson, or Terri Schiavo.

And they will, more times than not, go to ridiculous ends to prove you and me wrong.

I could name countless distortions trotted out by the mainstream media, Washington think-tanks or political organizations, but will instead focus on the media's claim that those of us who believe a state sanctioned starvation is immoral are, well, dead wrong.

The New York Times told us in a headline last week that starving to death was a most gentle way to die.

The Associate Press cited a study that showed that on a sliding scale from one to nine, experts believed that dying from a lack of food and water was all in all, a very good death.

Fascinating, isn't it?

If starvation is such a rocking trip, then why did the New York Times report pre-Schiavo that famine victims clutched their stomachs in pain?

And speaking of famines, are we now to believe that Bob Geldof and those meddling kids who put together Live Aid in 1985 were robbing African famine victims of a peaceful slumber, a most pleasurable death?

If so, then why worry about famine relief at all?

Elites have had no problem coming on my show telling me how Terri Schiavo has no quality of life so she would be better off dead.

Certainly the same holds true of starving children in Africa who are abused, raped, infected, and dying. Using elites' logic, feeding these children only prolong their pain.

Maybe Elton John should headline the next Live Aid concert and sing 'Funeral for a friend' and 'Better off dead.'

Or maybe, just maybe, elites should stop telling Americans how to live their lives, how to die, and how stupid we all are when we just don't see eye to eye.



March 25, 2005

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6845031/#050331b

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Jolie Rouge

Tone deaf to visceral issues
Joe Scarborough

Liberals are mad as hell and they're not going to take it anymore.

I have been trying to get members of the political left to talk about the human tragedy of a young, helpless woman being starved to death.

But all they seem to want to do is change the subject.

Democrats and their allies have faithfully followed the party line and refused to answer questions about Terri Schiavo's sad physical state. And no one in the liberal spin cycle wants to discuss offering hope to this helpless woman.

Instead, they lecture us on the intricacies of Texas law, or how this is all to save Tom Delay's hide, or what a hypocritical pig George W. Bush is — none of which has a thing to do with Terri Schiavo's imminent death.

For too many, the death of Terri Schiavo has become deeply personal. And for the life of me, I do not know why.

I have always worked hard to understand the thought process of political opponents. And in most cases, I have grown to understand why reasonable people of good faith could disagree on issues as diverse as gun control, gay marriage, and abortion. On most issues, I have succeeded in walking in the shoes of those with whom I disagree.

But that's not the case with Terri Schiavo.

I can try to understand why many would side with the husband, but I will never comprehend why the same political activists that fight for the protection of the spotted oil and snail darter are so eager to see Terri Schiavo die.

Moveon.org, Air America, and a host of other left-of-center organizations have sprung to life to support the death of Terri.

Obviously, many Democrats see this as a political opportunity to attack the President and Tom Delay. But the intensity of their anger at any one who tries to protect Ms. Schiavo's life is disturbing at best.

It is also politically dangerous.

Does the liberal wing of the Democratic Party really be known for supporting the killing of helpless women?

Of course not. But that is the corner in which they are painting themselves.

And that should trouble a Democratic Party whose two public relations moves over the past year have been opposing the spread of democracy in the Middle East and protecting the life of a helpless young woman.

Liberals can cite polls until they are blue in the face. They can talk about Texas laws and legislative hypocrisy. They can attack every last person who is trying to save this young woman from starvation.

But in the end, Americans shocked by this macabre chapter in American politics will see the Democrats as the party on the side of death and see George Bush as the defender of defenseless.

Maybe that's not fair. But it's a fact.

Why is it that the Democrats are so tone deaf on these visceral issues?


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6845031/#050331b

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Laissez les bon temps rouler! Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.** a 4 day work week & sex slaves ~ I say Tyt for PRESIDENT! Not to be taken internally, literally or seriously ....Suki ebaynni IS THAT BETTER ?

Jolie Rouge

Attorney: Terri's husband cradled her
'It was a very emotional moment for many of us there'
Thursday, March 31, 2005

(CNN) -- Terri Schiavo died a "calm, peaceful and gentle death" around 9 a.m. ET Thursday, cradled by her husband and legal guardian, Michael, said attorney George Felos.

Felos, who is Michael's Schiavo's attorney, told reporters that when his client entered his wife's room at the Woodside Hospice in Pinellas Park, Florida, about 8:45 a.m., "it was apparent that it was the final moments for Mrs. Schiavo."

Also in the room were hospice caregivers; Michael's brother, Brian; and another Schiavo attorney, Deborah Bushnell, said Felos, who was himself there.

Her death came less than 12 hours after the U.S. Supreme Court rejected her parents' last appeal and nearly two weeks after doctors, acting on an order issued by a state circuit court judge, removed her life-sustaining feeding tube. She was 41 and had been incapacitated since 1990 after suffering a heart attack that caused permanent brain damage.

Felos said Michael Schiavo had been staying in a room just down the hall from his wife for the past two weeks, ever since her feeding tube was removed March 18 on an order issued at Schiavo's request by Pasco-Pinellas Circuit Court Judge George Greer.

Felos said it had become apparent Wednesday that she was nearing death, with her heart beating rapidly, her skin mottling and her breathing becoming more difficult. Even in Terri Schiavo's final moments, there was one last dispute between her husband and other family members.

Terri's brother, Bobby Schindler, and his sister, Suzanne Vitadamo, had been in the room visiting their sibling for about an hour and 45 minutes when a hospice administrator notified Michael Schiavo that his wife was in her final stages.

Bobby Schindler got upset when a hospice official asked the siblings to leave the room so that Schiavo's condition could be evaluated. "There was not a confrontation," said the Rev. Frank Pavone, a Catholic priest and friend of the family who was there. "He was simply emotionally upset as anyone would be. ... He was told on no uncertain terms" they had to leave.

The Schiavo side gave a different version, saying the brother confronted the police officer who was trying to shepherd them out. "Bobby caused a commotion with the police officer," said Brian Schiavo.

Michael Schiavo's attorney, George Felos, stood by his client's decision to have Terri Schiavo's brother and sister leave the room. "Mr. Schiavo's overriding concern was Mrs. Schiavo has a right and had a right to die with dignity and die in peace," Felos said. "She had a right to have her last and final moments on this Earth be experienced by a spirit of love and not of acrimony." He added, "I emphasize it because this death was not for the siblings and not for the spouse and not for the parents. This was for Terri."


Her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, had begged to be with their firstborn while she drew her last breath but police denied their request, said Brother Paul O'Donnell, the Schindlers' spokesman and spiritual adviser.

When they were notified that their daughter had died, the couple hurriedly came to the hospice and stayed in the room where her body lay. "It's our understanding that the Schindlers spent some time with Terri's body," Felos said. "They were free to spend as much time as they chose with her body. After they left, the hospice workers bathed Terri's body, and Mr. Schiavo and all of us went back in to spend some more time."

Michael Schiavo was not present in the room during their visit.

'Terri, we love you dearly'

At one point about 30 to 40 hospice workers, many of whom had stayed past their shifts, formed a circle around Terri Schiavo's body, Felos said. A hospice chaplain said a prayer, he said. "It was a very emotional moment for many of us there," Felos said.

Bobby Schindler later told reporters: "Terri, we love you dearly, but we know that God loves you more than we do. We must accept your untimely death as God's will."

Neither he nor his sister mentioned that morning's incident in the hospice room, but they both indirectly criticized their brother-in-law. "After these recent years of neglect at the hand of those who were supposed to protect and care for her, she is finally at peace with God for eternity," Vitadamo said.

Michael Schiavo and the Schindlers had been locked in a bitter court battle since 1998. The husband contended his wife wouldn't have wanted to be kept alive by artificial means. The parents argued that if she had intense therapy she would significantly recover.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/31/sch...bed/index.html



Doesn't this sound odd ?? The doctor makes the siblings leave the room - but M., his brother, and two lawyers get to stay while they "evaluate" her ??

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Jolie Rouge

Terri Schiavo Dies, but Debate Lives On
By VICKIE CHACHERE, Associated Press Writer

PINELLAS PARK, Fla. - With her husband and parents feuding to the bitter end and beyond, Terri Schiavo died Thursday, 13 days after her feeding tube was removed in a wrenching right-to-die dispute that engulfed the courts, Capitol Hill and the White House and divided the country.

Cradled by her husband, Schiavo, 41, died a "calm, peaceful and gentle death" at about 9 a.m., a stuffed animal under her arm, flowers arranged around her hospice room, said George Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney.

No one from her side of the family was with her at the moment of her death. Her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, were not at the hospice, Felos said. And her brother had been barred from the room at Michael Schiavo's request moments before the end came.


The death of the severely brain-damaged woman brought to a close what was easily the longest, most bitter — and most heavily litigated — right-to-die dispute in U.S. history. "Mr. Schiavo's overriding concern here was to provide for Terri a peaceful death with dignity," said Felos, who also was present at the death.


But the Rev. Frank Pavone, one of the Schindlers' spiritual advisers, called her death "a killing," adding: "And for that we not only grieve that Terri has passed but we grieve that our nation has allowed such an atrocity as this and we pray that it will never happen again."


Schiavo suffered brain damage in 1990 and fell into what court-appointed doctors called a persistent vegetative state, with no real consciousness or chance of recovery, after a chemical imbalance caused her heart to stop. She had left no written instructions in the event she became disabled.

Her husband argued that she told him long ago that she would not want to be kept alive artificially. Her parents disputed that, and held out hope for a miracle recovery for a daughter they said still laughed with them and struggled to talk.


Pinellas County Circuit Judge George W. Greer sided with her husband and authorized the removal of the feeding tube keeping her alive. It was disconnected March 18.

During the seven-year legal battle, federal and state courts repeatedly rejected extraordinary attempts at intervention by Florida lawmakers, Gov. Jeb Bush, Congress and President Bush on behalf of her parents.


Supporters of her parents, many of them anti-abortion activists and political conservatives, harshly criticized the courts. Many religious groups, including the Roman Catholic Church, said the removal of sustenance violated fundamental religious tenets.

About 40 judges in six courts were involved in the case at one point or another. Six times, the U.S. Supreme Court declined to intervene. As Schiavo's life ebbed away, Congress rushed through a bill to allow the federal courts to take up the case, and President Bush signed it March 21. But the federal courts refused to step in.


The case prompted many people to ponder what they would want if they, too, were in such a desperate medical situation, and many rushed to draw up living wills. The case also led to a furious debate over the proper role of government in life-and-death decisions, and whether the Republicans in Congress violated their party's principles of limited government and deference to the states by getting involved.


In Washington on Thursday, the president was careful to extend condolences to Schiavo's "families" — meaning both Michael Schiavo and the Schindlers — even though he backed efforts to reconnect her feeding tube. "I urge all those who honor Terri Schiavo to continue to work to build a culture of life where all Americans are welcomed and valued and protected, especially those who live at the mercy of others," the president said.


House Republican Leader Tom DeLay condemned the state and federal judges who refused to prolong her life, and he warned that lawmakers "will look at an arrogant and out-of-control judiciary that thumbs its nose at Congress and the president."

"I never thought I'd see the day when a U.S. judge stopped feeding a living American so that they took 14 days to die," he said.


Gov. Jeb Bush, the president's brother, said that Schiavo's death "is a window through which we can see the many issues left unresolved in our families and in our society. For that, we can be thankful for all that the life of Terri Schiavo has taught us."


Outside the hospice — where over the past few weeks more than 50 protesters were arrested, many for trying to symbolically bring Schiavo food and water — demonstrators wept, prayed and sang religious hymns. Some threw their protest signs down in disgust. "You saw a murder happening," said one demonstrator, Dominique Hanks.


Schiavo's body was taken in an unmarked white van with police motorcycle escort to the Pinellas County medical examiner's office, where an autopsy was planned that both sides hoped would shed light on the extent of her brain damage and whether she was abused by her husband, as the Schindlers have argued.


In what was the source of yet another dispute between the husband and his in-laws, Michael Schiavo will get custody of his wife's body and plans to have her cremated.

Michael Schiavo's brother, Scott Schiavo, said the ashes will be buried in an undisclosed location near Philadelphia so that her immediate family does not attend and turn the moment into a media spectacle. A funeral Mass, sought by the Schindlers, was tentatively scheduled for Tuesday or Wednesday.


Asked about perhaps never knowing where his sister might be buried, Bobby Schindler said, "We've already said goodbye. ... He's been doing this kind of stuff for 15 years. What would make him stop now?"


Bob Schindler, Terri Schiavo's father, attended a public memorial service late Thursday at a church in Pinellas Park, telling his supporters: "We'll never forget you all. Thank you so, so much. And Terri thanks you, too."

Schindler received a standing ovation from the more than 200 people at the service, who hugged him and shook his hand as he left.

The ill will between the husband and his in-laws became plain in other ways: The Schindlers' advisers complained that Schiavo's brother and sister had been at her bedside a few minutes before the end came, but were not there at the moment of her death because Michael Schiavo would not let them in the room. "And so his heartless cruelty continues until this very last moment," said Pavone, a Roman Catholic priest.


Felos disputed the Schindler family's account. He said that Terri Schiavo's siblings had been asked to leave the room so that the hospice staff could examine her, and the brother, Bobby Schindler, started arguing with a law enforcement official.

Michael Schiavo feared a "potentially explosive" situation, and would not allow the brother in the room, Felos said. "Mrs. Schiavo had a right to have her last and final moments on this earth be experienced by a spirit of love and not of acrimony," the lawyer said.

Bobby Schindler did not address the family discord, but Pavone — who was with Schindler when he was asked to leave — said the brother "didn't raise his voice, but he became visibly upset" because he couldn't be with his sister when she died. A police spokesman refused to say whether there was a dispute.


Before she was stricken, Terri Schiavo had recurring battles with weight, and her collapse at age 26 was believed to have been caused by an eating disorder. Her parents, who visited her nearly every day, reported their daughter responded to their voices, and video showed her appearing to interact with her family. But the court-appointed doctor said the noises and facial expressions were reflexes.


Both sides accused each other of being motivated by greed over a $1 million medical malpractice award from doctors who failed to diagnose the chemical imbalance. Most of the money has been spent on her care and the legal battle.


Schiavo's feeding tube was briefly removed in 2001. It was reinserted after two days when a court intervened. In October 2003, the tube was removed again, but Gov. Bush rushed Terri's Law through the Legislature and had the tube reinserted after six days. The Florida Supreme Court later struck down the law as unconstitutional interference in the judicial system.

Schiavo lived in her brain-damaged state longer than two other young women whose cases brought right-to-die issues to the forefront.


Karen Quinlan lived for more than a decade in a vegetative state, brought on by alcohol and drugs in 1975 when she was 21. New Jersey courts let her parents take her off a respirator a year after her injury. Nancy Cruzan, who was 25 when a 1983 car crash put her in a vegetative state, lived nearly eight years before the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that her feeding tube could be withdrawn.

In both cases, however, the families agreed that lifesaving measures should be ended.

___

Associated Press reporters Allen Breed, Mike Schneider, Mark Long, Mitch Stacy and Ron Word contributed to this story.


http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor..._damaged_woman

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Laissez les bon temps rouler! Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.** a 4 day work week & sex slaves ~ I say Tyt for PRESIDENT! Not to be taken internally, literally or seriously ....Suki ebaynni IS THAT BETTER ?