Appeals court: Terri Schiavo parents cannot intervene - Page 4 - Big Big Forums

Jolie Rouge · 01-26-2005, 05:15 PM

This is where I have a problem with this - determining someone's "Quality of Life" as a standard for euthanasia.

I have a niece who is severely autistic. She rarely communicates with us, being lost in her own world. At 15, she has a working vocabulary of about 15 words, speaks maybe 5, wears diapers, can not feed or dress herself ( she still eats baby food because she also has problems swallowing ); uses a wheel chair because she can only walk short distances. Should she be "put down" ? When her caregiver is "entitled" to her estate - is it grounds for her death by starvation because her continued existance is "inconvient" for someone else ?

YNKYH8R · 01-26-2005, 05:47 PM

We are not talking about inconvience here. We are talking about futility. Your neice has a personality, and is developing. This woman is not, she is a blank slate. She will never get better. Her situation will never change. She is beyond mental comprehension. Like most children who learn and grow mentally this person no longer registers. If you had a blank VHS cassette that was broken you couldn't record on and it won't play the movies you saved on it. Do you save it knowing you'll never see the images again?

Again starvation is cruel and unusual.

Jolie Rouge · 01-26-2005, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YNKYH8R

We are not talking about inconvience here. We are talking about futility. Your neice has a personality, and is developing. This woman is not, she is a blank slate. She will never get better. Her situation will never change. She is beyond mental comprehension. Like most children who learn and grow mentally this person no longer registers. If you had a blank VHS cassette that was broken you couldn't record on and it won't play the movies you saved on it. Do you save it knowing you'll never see the images again?

Again starvation is cruel and unusual.

Angel ( my niece ) is 15 years old - her mental & intellectual age is between 6 & 8 months. She will never progress past this point. She is comparable to that "blank slate" except nothing can ever be writen there; her situation will not change; she will not get better. They have taken her to uncountable "specialists" in several states and three countries.

So - do we discard her as broken ?

Quote:

Wolfson served as Schiavo's guardian for two months in 2003 under ``Terri's Law.'' He tried to broker an agreement between the two sides, but was unsuccessful. Wolfson said it is not too late to revisit the original question in the long-running legal saga - is the 41-year-old woman disabled, or brain dead?

Appearently the question has yet to be addressed.

It is a slippery slope when we allow "Quality of Life" to determine a person's right to live.

YNKYH8R · 01-27-2005, 12:36 AM

I can't believe that you would compare "vegetable like state" to autism. Even if your niece is comperable to a 6-8 month old that is still not a blank slate. her parents hoped for the best when having her. Terri's condition was put upon her in her adult life. It has been this way for 14 years no change. You can't really call it quality of life when there is no life. Her autonomic system apears to function allowing her to breathe and regulate blood flow that is it. Your neice is so much more than that. I imagine she gets around, has feelings, her own thoughts, even likes and dislikes. I will bet you she can even recognize her parents and show emotion for them. Well guess what Terri can't. She is not in a coma. She is living flesh with on mind. Comparing her to an autisic person is an insult to autism itself. She (Terri) has conciousness but no realization of self. And if she did it would have brought itself around by now. I feel for her parents I really do. They have allowed this to go on for so long they can't let go. All they see is their daughter. It is almost as bad as sending a loved one to a taxidermist so that you can see them whenever you want. A shell of her former self. Sad truely sad.

Jolie Rouge · 01-27-2005, 12:33 PM

LOL - did you realise you contradicted yourself ??

I agree that the family ( both sides ) have allowed this to spin out of control - but how could they not ? But this issue is now about more then Terri herself. It sets legal precedence for euthanasia for "Quality of Life".

YNKYH8R · 01-27-2005, 05:39 PM

What do you mean I contradicted myself? Where?

gingerswit · 01-28-2005, 12:34 AM

poor poor woman. Being kept alive because her parernts can't let go. So what that the guy is seeing someone elses! I don't know about anyone here but if my brain turned to mush (and I have heard from docs that she is brain dead, don't know where but it was on tv lol) I would want my hubby to be happy and move one. That is if I was the way she is. Her poor soul is probably yearning to be free. Her hubby loves her and wants to do what is best for her. I would be ANGRY if my hubby just up and left. He knows I would not want to be a vegtable and be hooked up to machines. I assume this is the case here. I am SICK that the hubby is made out to be a vilian and her parents could let this HUMAN being just sit there for 14 years! I don't see love just a lot of selfishness! I am glad if that were to happen to me that my parents wouldn't intervine and force their beliefs on me. She has been suffering for 14 years because of all this. Free her soul I say and let the guy do what is right for his wife.

JKATHERINE · 01-28-2005, 12:18 PM

I agree. This has gone on far too long. I, too, am pretty disturbed that Terri's condition was compared to someone with Autism. I know and have worked with a few Autistic children. Although they arent' all able to fully function in our world, they do have thier own thoughts, feelings and can control at least some part of their actions, movements, etc. Many autistic children are thought to be brilliant...even geniuses. Terri Schiavo is completely brain dead. She doesn't think, eat, feel or speak. She doesn't recognize those around her. The only thing she does is breath and that is only because breathing is innate--it is something we do without even thinking about it.

It's time to let the poor woman go and let her husband move on with his life. I know if this were me, I would be furious with Adam for letting me live (if you can call it that) like this for so long AND for not moving on with his life and finding some HAPPINESS. Life is much too short for anyone to spend it this way.

ntgsmommy · 01-28-2005, 02:04 PM

Terri Schiavo Is Very Much
Alive And Responsive
Contact Keith Brickell
Gibbs Law Firm Media Director
kbrickell@gibbsfirm.com
1-6-5

PINELLAS PARK, Fl (Christian Wire Service) -- Terri Schiavo is very much alive and responsive. That is what lawyers for Robert and Mary Schindler saw when they visited Terri Schiavo in her room at the Woodside Hospice in Pinellas Park, FL, on Christmas Eve.

Attorney David Gibbs III and Attorney Barbara Weller, of Gibbs Law Firm in Seminole, FL, took on the role of lead counsel for the Schindlers in September of 2004. The Christmas Eve visit was the first time either of the attorneys had been able to see Terri since taking the case. They made the visit with Terri's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, and members of her immediate family.

Counsel was able to personally verify the fact that Terri is not in a coma or even in a comatose state. She was purposefully interactive, curious and expressive with her parents during the entire 45-minute visit. Mrs. Weller wrote a moving narrative describing in detail her reactions and observations during this visit. (Mrs. Weller's narrative is available online at http://www.terrisfight.org/press/BJWnarrative.html.)

To arrange an interview with Attorney David Gibbs III or Attorney Barbara Weller contact Keith Brickell,Gibbs Law Firm Media Director, 727-399-8300, 727-458-4824 cell, kbrickell@gibbsfirm.com

The Terri Schindler-Schiavo Foundation is the official organization responsible for speaking on behalf of the Schindler family. For more information and background on the case, visit the foundation's website at www.terrisfight.org.

Contact: Keith Brickell,
Gibbs Law Firm Media Director,
727-399-8300, 727-458-4824 cell,
kbrickell@gibbsfirm.com

Jolie Rouge · 01-28-2005, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JKATHERINE

I agree. This has gone on far too long. I, too, am pretty disturbed that Terri's condition was compared to someone with Autism. I know and have worked with a few Autistic children. Although they arent' all able to fully function in our world, they do have thier own thoughts, feelings and can control at least some part of their actions, movements, etc. Many autistic children are thought to be brilliant...even geniuses.

I was not comparing Terri to Autistic children in general. I was comparing her with one special person - My niece, Angel. Your descriptions above do not refer to Angel nor to her case. My concern is the legal precedence that is being set. The person who would most profit from her estate is the person who gets to pull the tubes. You don't see a conflict of interest here ??

Quote:

Originally Posted by JKATHERINE

Terri Schiavo is completely brain dead. She doesn't think, eat, feel or speak. She doesn't recognize those around her. The only thing she does is breath and that is only because breathing is innate--it is something we do without even thinking about it.

Refer to the article posted above. The person telling eveyone that she is a veg is the person profiting from her death - or people on his payroll - or people who have an adgenda beyond Terri herself. They refuse to let anyone else see her. Don't you have to ask yourself "WHY" ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JKATHERINE

It's time to let the poor woman go and let her husband move on with his life. I know if this were me, I would be furious with Adam for letting me live (if you can call it that) like this for so long AND for not moving on with his life and finding some HAPPINESS. Life is much too short for anyone to spend it this way.

Seeing that the man has two children by his mistress - I mean fiance' - I think he has "gotten on with his life" already.

***Katt*** · 01-28-2005, 04:16 PM

For me, I wouldn't want to live like that. But, I don't believe she can be fully classified as brain dead either.

Breathing doesn't just happen. It is controlled by the brain just as other functions are. Where the accident occurs is what determines what stops working. For example someone has a brain injury that involves a specific region, then that region stops working. (such as in a stroke) Breathing IS controlled by the brain. The region is directly at the top of the spinal cord. If an injury occurs there, the body cannot signal itself to breath, and therefore the person would be on a vent. That doesn't mean the person can't have thoughts, feelings etc. They just wouldn't be able to breath on their own.

Now that that part is cleared up...she can breath on her own, but that doesn't mean the rest of her brain is functioning. It also doesn't mean that it isn't. She could still have thoughts etc, without a way to express them due to loss of body funtioning. I haven't bothered to read much on it, because I don't read the articles that get posted on the board..but, have they done brain function tests? Is there evidence of brain activity? If not, then she needs to be let go.

I stay out of this mess because these threads are always a fight waiting to happen. The only part I can judge is how I would feel in this case. I would NOT agree to cutting off the feeding tube of my child to watch them starve to death. However, I also could not bare to watch my child suffer like that. It's a very difficult situation. I also don't see why the husband just won't leave her and let someone else have the burden he so obviously wants to escape.

I guess the smart thing to do would be to have a living will stating your wishes. Then, messes like this could be avoided.