Thread: Summer gun wars: Jesse Jackson leads the way

Obamacare Amendment Forbids Gun and Ammo Registration
Posted on January 9, 2013 by Robert Gillock - Web News Editor

Good news — it has been revealed that hidden deep within the massive 2800-page bill called “Obamacare” there is a Senate amendment protecting the right to keep and bear arms.

It seems that in their haste to cram socialized medicine down the throats of the American people, then-Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) and Barack Obama overlooked Senate amendment 3276, Sec. 2716, part c. (Editor’s Note: The video at the link originally contained descriptive language along the lines, “gun language infects health care bill.” It has apparently been removed.)

According to reports, that amendment says the government cannot collect “any information relating to the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition.”

CNN is calling it “a gift to the nation’s powerful gun lobby.”

And according to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV), that’s exactly right. He says he added the provision in order to keep the NRA from getting involved in the legislative fight over Obamacare, which was so ubiquitous in 2010.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...o-Registration

I first thought this might be all made up, so I had to look it up. I hope this is true! It looks to be true.

http://votesmart.org/bill/10666/sena...ill-amendments

Stage Details

Amendment – Amendment Adopted (Senate) (60-39) – Dec. 22, 2009(Key vote)

Title: Senate Health Care Bill Amendments

Vote Smart’s Synopsis:

Vote to adopt an amendment to S Amdt 2786 to HR 3590 that issues various amendments to the bill, including, but not limited to, the following highlights.

Highlights:
-Specifies that health care coverage, premium rates, and any participation in health and wellness programs shall not be affected by an individual’s lawful ownership, use, or storage of firearms or ammunition, nor shall such data be collected on individuals (Sec. 10101). -Specifies that individuals enrolled in a group health plan or other health plan can choose any participating primary care provider who is available to accept such individual, including pediatricians (Sec. 10101). -Prohibits health insurers that provide emergency care coverage shall from requiring prior authorization or increased cost sharing when an enrollee has an emergency medical condition (Sec. 10101). -Prohibits health insurers from requiring a woman to get pre-approval or a physician referral for obstetric or gynecological care (Sec. 10101). -Prohibits health insurers from discriminating against an enrollee for participating in an approved clinical trial for the treatment of cancer or other life-threatening condition (Sec. 10103). -Requires health plans seeking certification as a qualified plan under the Health Care Exchange use “plain language” to describe the plan, and that such providers submit the following to the Exchange, the Secretary of Health and Human Services, and to the state’s insurance commissioner (Sec. 10104):-Policies and practices for claims payments; -Financial disclosures; -Data on enrollment, disenrollment, the number of claims that were denied, and rating practices; -Information on cost sharing and payments made for any out-of-network coverage; -Information on the rights of enrollees; and -Other information deemed appropriate by the Secretary.-Requires employers who elect to provide minimal health coverage to offer health care vouchers that can be used to pay for Exchange-eligible health care plans to employees that meet the following requirements (Sec. 10108):-Required contribution for minimum coverage exceeds 8 percent of the employee’s household income but does not exceed 9.8 percent; -Household income does not exceed 400 percent of the federal poverty line for the taxable year; and -The employee elects not to be covered under the employer’s health plan.-Requires health care vouchers to be equal to the monthly cost of the employer-sponsored plan that would have been paid by the employer if the employee were covered, and specifies that any amount in excess of the premium shall be paid to the employee and that vouchers are not included in the employee’s gross income for the taxable year (Sec. 10108). -Establishes a program that allows for increased federal medical assistance payments to states that offer long-term home-based or community health care services in place of nursing facilities (Sec. 10202). -Appropriates $57.62 billion for the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) as follows (Sec. 10203):-$15.36 billion for the period of October 1, 2012 through March 31, 2013 (increased from $11.71 billion); -$17.41 billion for fiscal year 2012-2013; -$19.15 billion for fiscal year 2013-2014; and -$5.7 billion for fiscal year 2014-2015.-Establishes the Pregnancy Assistance Fund for the purpose of funding state programs that assist pregnant and parenting teens in high schools and colleges, and appropriates $25 million per annum for fiscal years 2010 through 2019 (Secs. 10212-10214). -Repeals an amendment to the Sustainable Growth Rate Formula used to adjust Medicare rates of payment to physicians, including a requirement that rates be reduced if Medicare expenditures exceeded specific targets set by the Balanced Budget Act of 1997, by establishing a standard 0.5 percent rate for 2010 (Sec. 10310). -Exempts the state of Nebraska from the federal compensation guidelines for the expansion of Medicaid, and instead the state will be compensated for 100 percent of the costs beginning in 2014 and each subsequent year thereafter (Sec. 10201). -Expands Medicare eligibility to individuals who are exposed to environmental health hazards are eligible for Medicare, including, but not limited to, individuals with conditions related to asbestos exposure, and specifies that such individual must have been present in the contaminated area for at least 6 months and must file a claim within 10 years of being diagnosed (Sec. 10323). -Extends the Rural Community Hospital Demonstration Program, which provides inpatient care services for Medicare beneficiaries, for 5 years from the expiration date (Sec. 10313). -Requires the Secretary of Health and Human Services to develop a method for measuring “health plan value”, including but not limited to the following elements (Sec. 10329):-The overall cost to enrollees; -The quality of the care provided; -How efficient the plan is in providing care; -The relative risk of the plan’s enrollees compared to other plans; and -The actuarial value or other measure of benefits.-Requires the Secretary to establish the Physician Compare Internet website no later than January 1, 2011, which provides physician performance information on physicians enrolled in the Medicare, and requires the Secretary of Health and Human Services to also make available on the website information on the following (Sec. 10331):-Patient health outcomes and the functional status of patients; -Measures collected under the Physician Quality Reporting Initiative; -Continuity and coordination of care and care transitions; -Efficiency; -Patient experience and patient, caregiver, and family engagement; -Safety, effectiveness, and timeliness of care; -Information on measurements collected; and -Other information deemed appropriate by the Secretary.-Authorizes the Secretary of Health and Human Services to award demonstration grants to states that develop, implement, and evaluate alternatives to current health care tort litigation policy, and appropriates $50 million for this purpose (Sec. 10607). -Authorizes states to enact laws prohibiting abortion coverage in qualified health plans offered through an Exchange in the state, and specifies that states may also repeal such laws (Sec. 10104). -Specifies that plans may choose whether or not to cover abortion services, and requires the separation of funds for abortion services for which federal funding is prohibited so that a subsidy eligible individual will make a separate premium payment that will go to an account that will be used solely for covering such abortion services (Sec. 10104). -Prohibits health plans from discriminating against providers based on unwillingness to cover, pay for, or refer for abortions (Sec. 10104). -Specifies that nothing in this act shall preempt state or federal abortion laws (Sec. 10104).
Note:
NOTE: THIS IS AN AMENDMENT TO A SUBSTITUTE AMENDMENT. A SUBSTITUTE AMENDMENT REPLACES THE ENTIRE TEXT OF A PIECE OF LEGISLATION WITH A NEW TEXT.

‎1995: Obama's Attorney General Wanted 'Campaign' to 'Really Brainwash People' on Guns

[VIDEO] http://bit.ly/VhBeu5 http://mrctv.org/videos/1995-holder-...sh-people-guns

'LIKE' and 'SHARE' if you agree --> Neither the media, nor politicians will EVER "brainwash" Americans into giving up their guns.

School Obama's Daughters Attend Has 11 Armed Guards

Some interesting news has broken in the wake of the latest push for gun control by President Obama and Senate Democrats: Obama sends his kids to a school where armed guards are used as a matter of fact.

The school, Sidwell Friends School in Washington, DC, has 11 security officers and is seeking to hire a new police officer as we speak.

If you dismiss this by saying, "Of course they have armed guards -- they get Secret Service protection," then you've missed the larger point.

The larger point is that this is standard operating procedure for the school, period. And this is the reason people like NBC's David Gregory send their kids to Sidwell, they know their kids will be protected from the carnage that befell kids at a school where armed guards weren't used (and weren't even allowed).

Shame on President Obama for seeking more gun control and for trying to prevent the parents of other school children from doing what he has clearly done for his own. His children sit under the protection guns afford, while the children of regular Americans are sacrificed.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...Secret-Service

Biden Compares Gun Control to Car Air Bags: 'We're Saving Lives'
By Fred Lucas - January 10, 2013

CNSNews.com) – Vice President Joe Biden on Thursday compared restrictions on guns to auto safety regulations such as air bags, by saying neither the gun nor the auto industries wanted regulations to save lives.

“Well they didn’t want to have air bags. Well, guess what? We have air bags. We’re saving lives,” Biden told reporters before a meeting with several stakeholders on the gun-control issue, as he plans to craft a set of proposals for President Barack Obama by Tuesday, Jan. 15.

The proposals are expected to include a renewed ban on so-called assault weapons, and beefed-up background checks.

The last area is the whole subject of the ability of any federal agency to do research on gun violence,” Biden said. “There was a big fight when I first got to the Senate that began in the late 60s through early 70s where the automobile industry was very reluctant to allow the Department of Transportation to acquire statistics on the type of accidents that occurred. They were not able to literally acquire information because the concern was it would lead to a call for some rational regulations.”

Biden said that when the government got the information, it imposed regulations to require automakers to build cars with steering wheels that collapse and that would withstand a greater amount of shock from a front-end collision. Then another matter came along, he said. “All of a sudden, when we found out passengers were being killed because they were being thrown through windshields or, if my memory serves me, skull fractures from being thrown into the crossbar, all of a sudden we started talking about, it made sense, why don’t we have airbags? They didn’t want to have airbags. Well guess what, you have airbags. We are saving lives,” Biden said.

The correlation, according to Biden, is that today there are legal barriers to the government getting information on guns. "Well, as you know, there are restrictions now on any agency in the government just gathering the information about what kind of weapons are used most to kill people,” Biden said. “How many weapons used are trafficked weapons? Are weapons used in gang warfare in our major cities -- are they legally purchased or are they purchased through straw men? We don’t have that information. And the irony is we are prohibited under laws and appropriations bills from acquiring it.”

The Obama administration is pushing for new gun-control measures after the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting in Newtown, Conn., where a gunman murdered 20 children, most of them kindergarteners. Subsequently, Obama formed a task force to come up with a legislative package that he could unveil during the State of the Union address. He put Biden in charge of the task force.

At about noon on Thursday, Biden met with advocates for sportsmen and wildlife interest groups and was joined by Attorney General Eric Holder, Education Secretary Arne Duncan, Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius, Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack and Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood.

Later in the afternoon, Biden, Holder, LaHood and Duncan were set to meet with gun-owners’ groups, including the National Rifle Association. Then at 6 p.m. Biden, Holder, and Sebelius were scheduled to meet with representatives of the entertainment industry.

Biden said during the remarks before the noon meeting, “I have committed to him [Obama] that I will have the recommendations to him by Tuesday.”

Biden mentioned “universal background checks.” He also mentioned a call to deal with high- capacity magazines. He also said he would like to talk to gun manufacturers.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/bide...e-saving-lives

Oddly, car air bags are not a "Right" as outlined in the Constitutional Bill of Rights. The 2nd amendment, however "IS" an Inherent Right guaranteed by 'God' and the contract of the Constitution as signed by the founders when they created the U.S. government.

So, where exactly "IS" the "correlation" Mr. Biden?

Could THIS be the reason that "Joe" told the U.S. he couldn't hold a 'real' job?

2011 deaths:
323 Rifle deaths.
496 Hammer deaths.
650 Knife deaths.
12,000 drunk driver deaths.
195,000 malpractice deaths.

So, you are 600 times more likely to die by using your "obama care" than a semi automatic rifle. so, feel sick?

A murder in the womb every 94 seconds.

....

If all guns are banned (hypothetically) what will you do about:

car violence
blunt force trauma violence
fist and leg violence
knife violence
booby trap violence, etc.?

The list is endless for anyone committed to harming someone else. A gun is not necessary. You will accomplish nothing by banning something. If evil is bent on harm, evil will accomplish that harm. Ridding the gun was never a founding father intent. The gun was supposed to keep the government in check. It was the first defense against tyranny. It has nothing to do with hunting or target practice. It has to do with maintaining liberty. The government would like nothing better than to take that liberty away. If you wish to be a slave, do nothing. If you wish to remain a freedom loving person, keep and bear arms and don't let it be infringed. Its not that complicated.

....

Remember also that this kind of thing is exactly what Britain tried to do to the colonial Americans. Then Americans became excellent weapons smugglers. If the government insists on dividing the people into two categories, criminals or slaves, it should not be surprised when most intelligent people would rather become criminals than slaves.

...

The entertainment industry? Since when are they experts on firearms? These people just portray the unrestricted use of these in movies that have become so violent that my family won't even go to see them anymore. Their opinion is worthless as they make millions off the depiction of the irresponsible use of guns!

...
I propose that the first gun free zone be around the White House and Congress. There should be no armed security anywhere around Biden, Obama, and especially Supreme court justice Roberts.

[/i]

Hey Piers Morgan - let me answer the question that you're attempting to understand: Why do Americans need assault rifles?

1. Because our Constitution grants us the right to bear arms. PERIOD. We as Free Citizen's get to select the weapon of our choice....it's called American, which you wouldn't understand. Some of us will go the ultimate distance to defend that right.

2. In the event of an invasion by a foreign power our citizens are our militia (remember 1776?), the ultimate defense of our nation (as evidenced by the famous "rifle behind every blade of grass" quote by Isoroku Yamamoto). We are smart enough as defenders to make sure we are not fighting people with tanks and fully auto machine guns with only the muskets and sticks you would have us carry. We prefer to win.

3. Burglars, robbers, criminals, and drug cartels who are an ever constant danger to us (do you watch the televison news?) don't restict themselves to the use of handguns. We are better able to defend ourselves successfully when we are equally or better armed.

4. Law enforcement doesn't make anyone safe. At best, it prosecutes and convicts the person guilty of murdering or maiming you. The only way you can enhance your safety is to have greater force than the perpetrator, at the moment of the crisis, not several minutes later when the police respond.

5. We are as much threatened by our own government as that of a foreign power. An armed people are much less likely to become slaves of their own government.

What's terribly sad is that I have to explain this common sense to you.

The NRA's chief lobbyist calls the meeting with Joe Biden a "dog and pony show." FULL INTERVIEW: http://foxnewsinsider.com/2013/01/11...and-pony-show/

For more, watch a special 'Hannity' tonight at 9p/12a ET. Sean tackles the gun control controversy and citizens speak out about their personal safety fears.



The NRA met with Vice President Joe Biden’s gun violence task force on Thursday, but the group did not have many positive things to say about the talks.

In a statement, the group said it was “disappointed,” saying Biden’s group displayed “an agenda to attack the Second Amendment.”

In an exclusive interview on America Live today, Megyn Kelly spoke with the NRA’s chief lobbyist Chris Cox, who reiterated that the meeting with Biden’s task force did not go the way he hoped it would.

“It became very clear, very early that they weren’t looking to hear from gun owners, they were looking to blame gun owners,” said Cox.

Cox said there are other steps that need to be taken in order to reduce gun violence, including better mental health programs and enhanced school security. He said some of the measures Biden is talking about, like a ban on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, have already been tried.

“We have to be honest in this country about what works and what doesn’t work. We had a gun ban, we had a high-capacity magazine ban. Not for six months or for a year, but for a decade. And even Bill Clinton’s Justice Department said it had no impact.”

Cox said he is hoping to have “meaningful conversations” with lawmakers on Capitol Hill about how to reduce gun violence, saying the NRA supports efforts to improve background checks on gun buyers.

“Yesterday was nothing more than a dog and pony show. They checked the box, yep, we met with the NRA. They had no interest in hearing what we had to say,” said Cox.

Watch the full interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=Bku9OPXwx3k

Aww: Musket Morgan whines about ‘right wing masses’ mobilizing against him
Posted at 12:20 pm on January 11, 2013 by Twitchy Staff

Piers Morgan

✔@piersmorgan Fascinating to see how U.S. right wing masses as one to target anyone who disagrees with them on guns. In UK, not a political issue at all.

11 Jan 13

http://twitchy.com/2013/01/11/aww-mu...g-against-him/

Perhaps the entire government apparatchik should study carefully both civil wars this country has fought. I call the first (revolutionary war) a civil war because it was, only the victors wrote the history and wished to call themselves revolutionaries, but if the torries and England had won, it would have been a civil war. The second civil war is called a civil war because the winner writes the history and called it a civil war.

The south to this day calls it the war of Northern Aggression, but they don’t write the history. MY POINT; In the 10 years prior to each of these events, the history shows a deeply divided country with a government willing to commit any level of corruption and punishment of protest to succeed in it’s agenda. The civil war is especially enlightening, because it so closely resembles today. The northeast had the factories (today it’s money centers) and the south had the product for those factories (cotton, tobacco, etc.) But those businesses in the south were labor intensive, hence slavery. The north needed more skilled labor, so it brought over indentured servants from Europe, and owned them for a term. The fight over the vote in Kansas to become slave or free state is much the same as todays elections. Charges of stacking the deck by importation of free votes from the northeast are similar to voter fraud of today where New Yorkers and Californians migrate to their other home to vote where it matters more (Fla and Nev). The battles of Missouri and Kansas over property being stolen is very similar to today’s property being stolen by EPA rules regarding cattle grazing, and wetlands, and confiscation of property not for public use, but to give to someone else who you deem to be more fitting of ownership. Yes slaves were property and that is abhorant in 2013, but guns are property and the concept of confiscation is abhorant to many and cheered by many.

In 1861, the U.S. Government sent it’s navy to blockade the ports of the south so as to prevent them from selling their crops to England, which had factories also and were paying more than the U.S. factories. After months of this forced confiscation, the inevitable happened, and the Civil War began. I am very fearful this is deja vu all over again. The government needs to stop perpetrating it’s agenda through the use of crisis propaganda, or I fear it will indeed produce a crisis. There are reasons the sale of weapons and ammo are through the roof. People are very afraid of what this government will do to achieve it’s goals, as it has already proven it will not enforce laws it doesn’t like, it will execute laws with no legislative background, it will punish it’s detractors, and not punish it’s criminal subjects, and it will confiscate property rights, blackmail businesses and payoff agenda friends.

HMMMM, I think I’ve seen this movie before.

..

Do we really need to refight the Civil War yet again? The war was fought over SLAVERY which the South was DEFENDING! You modern revisionists like to couch that ugly reality in terms of states’ rights and equate it to modern struggles but you are wrong to do so. Slavery violated the spirit and letter of our founding constitution. It was a carbunkle on the American Experiment. It needed to be addressed and eliminated. It was. Let’s move on.

Half of America is not enslaved today. We are ALL fighting the LOSS of our constitutional rights and freedoms, not fighting to keep some people enslaved based on standing morality on its head.

And the American War of Independence was NOT a civil war. It was a colonial uprising just like many others that preceded and followed it. Had the British prevailed, that is how they would have written the history.

..

Pasadena Phil, Cheapseat is correct about the reason the Civil War was fought. Slavery was a part of it, but economics drove the train. If the north had had a need for slaves they would have had them. Slavery would have died on it’own because good people saw the evil of it. It is revionist history that has distorted the truth about the Civil War, just like revsionist history has distroted the truth about Israel and Palistine. I know this is off topic, but the left won’t be happy until they have thrown out the constituion.

..

Slavery would also have died because of economics. Machines created through the industrial revolution would have made manual labor too expensive to continue.

..

Originally Posted by Jolie Rouge

Making Lists -- and Publishing Them:
Earth First ('Prank' Hit List), Gannett's Journal News (Pistol Permit Holders)
By Tom Blumer | December 24, 2012

What similarities are there between a domestic terrorist organization and the alleged journalists at the Journal News headquartered in White Plains, New York? At least two biggies: total lack of respect for privacy and complete disregard for others' safety. The domestic terror group Earth First has an "EAT(IT) "Eco Assassin Team (in Training)," which has tired of "the stale old debate about adopting nonviolence as a movement principle." Accordingly, the Earth First Journal (HT to J. Christian Adams at PJ Media; those wishing to go to the original need to go there first, as I would rather not directly link) has published a top ten "'Eco-F***ers Prank-Hit List,' at least until we come up with something more creative."

The Journal News has published its own (conveniently unbylined) list, complete with interactive maps. The maps contain "the addresses (and names) of all pistol permit holders in Westchester and Rockland counties." Really: http://www.lohud.com/interactive/art...hood-?gcheck=1

Each dot represents an individual permit holder licensed to own a handgun — a pistol or revolver. The data does not include owners of long guns — rifles or shotguns — which can be purchased without a permit. Being included in this map does not mean the individual at a specific location owns a weapon, just that they are licensed to do so.

Data for all permit categories, unrestricted carry, premises, business, employment, target and hunting, is included, but permit information is not available on an individual basis.

To create the map, The Journal News submitted Freedom of Information requests for the names and addresses of all pistol permit holders in Westchester, Rockland and Putnam. By state law, the information is public record.

The paper does not identify how publishing all of these names and addresses furthers its alleged "long and distinguished history of service to the residents and businesses in New York’s Westchester, Rockland and Putnam counties." http://mediakit.lohud.com/article/99...age-Innovation Because it doesn't.

What it does is two things:

•Gives criminals an easy roadmap for identifying homes from which they might steal guns.

• Arguably more dangerously, it identifies who doesn't have "pistols" as targets who will likely be less able to resist robbery, assault, or worse, both at home and especially in public.

Which of the two is the bigger danger is an open question. I believe it's the latter. If I'm right, the publishing of these maps should disturb the unarmed far more than those who are armed.

The Earth First Journal lists an address at the bottom of its newsletter issue. The Journal News's address can be found at its "about" page. No, I'm not going to identify either of them here, but Instapundit's question in response to what the Journal News has done is more than appropriate: "I guess nobody could object to people putting the newspaper staff’s addresses on the Web now, right?" http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/160286/

Right.

New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, who has publicly stated that "confiscation is an option," certainly will have an easier time carrying out such a wish now, won't he? http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blu...ould-be-option


Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blu...#ixzz2G81qP7O6

NY newspaper’s gun permit disclosure leads to burglary, new legislation
11:32 PM 01/13/2013

A home burglary in White Plains, N.Y. that appears related to a newspaper’s recent publication of gun-permit holders will bring a legislative response Monday, in the form of a new bill aimed at banning similar public disclosures in the future.

Newsday reported Sunday that burglars broke into a 70-year-old man’s home intending to steal his gun safe. The resident, and his address, were among 44,000 disclosures of lawful firearm permits that the Journal News, a Westchester County, N.Y. newspaper, published on Dec. 24.
Republican state Sen. Greg Ball has been critical of the newspaper’s decision to release the information on the heels of the Dec. 14 Connecticut school shooting that left 20 children and six adults dead. Ball introduced two bills in the New York State Senate on Jan. 11 in response to the Journal News’ controversial move. One, S2132, would exempt “the disclosure, under the freedom of information law, of the name of any person issued a license to carry or possess a firearm.”

The other, S2131, would specifically place out of reach “the name of any police officer, peace officer, correction officer, or retired police officer, peace officer or correction officer issued a license to carry or possess a firearm.”

The special status for law enforcement officers is thought to be needed because both active duty and retired officers may live across state lines in Connecticut, Vermont, Pennsylvania, New Jersey or Massachusetts. “The Journal News has placed the lives of these folks at risk by creating a virtual shopping list for criminals and nut jobs,” Ball said in a statement Sunday.

If the White Plains burglars did indeed target their victim because the newspaper led them to believe an elderly man lived there with valuable firearms, he added, “this is further proof that these maps are not only an invasion of privacy but that they present a clear and present danger to law-abiding, private citizens. Former convicts have already testified to the usefulness of the asinine Journal News ‘gun maps’ yet the reckless editors are evidently willing to roll the dice, gambling with the lives of innocent local homeowners.”

A press release from Ball’s office said he would be publicly unveiling three pieces of legislation Monday, including S2131, S2132 and an unspecified third bill. “These bills are critical to keep folks safe and fundamentally protect their inherent right to privacy,” he said.

Robert Buckley, the vice president of the Affiliated Police Association of Westchester County, added in a letter that his organization was “putting The Journal News on notice that we will hold [them] accountable for any incident where any of our over 25,000 members are involved with an incident where a criminal or ex-con presents themselves at the residence of one of our members as a result of their name being made public by [their] newspaper.”


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/13/ny...#ixzz2HxBdzhd1

If you want any indication of where these clowns in our government are taking our country.... British Doctors have called for the banning of long knives to curb stabbings in December. Today there is another banning that just took place... They banned the sale of aluminum bats and police style truncheons... So let's get this straight, they ban guns, bats, and want a ban on long knives... What they are telling us, is that you do not have a right to defend your family, and you do not have a right to question the authority of the government. Does that sound like a Constitutional Republic? If you want to know what the strategy is for the US, look no further than our close ally and big sister, England. The people there are rioting in the streets, care to predict what is to come in the US? - Joe Otto


UK riots: Amazon withdraws truncheons after bumper sales

Sales of baseball bats, Kubotans and other self-defence items soar in aftermath of rioting in English cities

James Ball ~ guardian.co.uk, Thursday 11 August 2011

Amazon has removed several police-style telescopic truncheons from sale on its site as soaring sales of truncheons, baseball bats and other items that could be used as weapons sparked fears of vigilantism in the wake of widespread rioting.

Sales of one type of aluminium truncheon rose 50,000% within 24 hours, entering the top-10 bestselling items in the sports category. Before they were de-listed, two different "police-style" truncheons had seen sales increase more than 400-fold overnight, though from a low base.

Amazon.co.uk also stocks, either directly or through third parties, self-defence sprays and Kubotans, short lengths of plastic or steel used as a concealed weapon. Carrying such items on the street can be against the law – entertainer Darren Day was convicted in Edinburgh in 2010 for possession of a Kubotan – but their sale is not an offence.

Michael Gomulka, a barrister at 25 Bedford Road chambers, said English and Welsh law split offensive weaponry into different categories. Items that were unambiguously weapons, or those adapted as weapons, are illegal to sell as well as to carry. However, dual-use items – which can include antique samurai swords, which have a decorative function – can be sold legally.

Telescopic truncheons are only illegal for sale, Gomulka said, if they are spring-loaded. The two seen for sale on Amazon were manually extendable. Kubotans are only illegal to sell if they are spiked, but can be illegal to carry even if they are not spiked.

Amazon users were divided about the site's continued sale of metal baseball bats and similar items in the wake of the riots.

"[Let's] call upon amazon.co.uk to ban this item temporarily as it is obviously currently abused as a cheap, quick weapon to be used in the London riots. Ban it now!" said Patrick Hoelscher, who started a discussion thread to this effect.

Other users agreed, but some supported the sales to encourage self-defence:

"Have you considered they may be being bought by respectable business & home owners for self-defence only. In that case I fully commend the purchasers," Dave Woodhead commented, while others warned against the risks of vigilantism.

"Even if they are being bought by respectable home and business owners, they should be banned from sale temporarily," said V Woolf. "Vigilantism is not the answer. Get these items off the shelves, we are all scared and angry in London and need to know that measures are being taken to help us to feel safe in our cities again."

This view was echoed by Stella Creasy, the Labour MP whose Walthamstow constituency was hit by looters on Monday night.

"There is nothing wrong with being vigilant, with being present on the streets and helping the police," she said. "But this crosses the line when it involves weapons. That just encourages the sense of fear – we want to reduce tension and fear in the area. People with baseball bats roaming the streets is not helpful: don't go on Amazon buying them.

"Hundreds of people in Walthamstow are helping run a respite centre for police. That's helpful."

Amazon did not respond to several requests for comment.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/au...aws-truncheons